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  1. #1
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    I'll say one more thing about social programs: in 80 years, I don't think we've given them a fair shake. They've been shackled by Jim Crow laws, and they've been counteracted by an increasing investment in capital markets to the direct detriment of wages.

    Ken, thanks very much for the interesting, intelligent, and exhausting discussion. If there were more non-liberals like you, I'd be much less liberal myself.

  2. #2
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorfirebox View Post
    I'll say one more thing about social programs: in 80 years, I don't think we've given them a fair shake. They've been shackled by Jim Crow laws, and they've been counteracted by an increasing investment in capital markets to the direct detriment of wages.
    The Job Corps as it was originally conceived was a big success, don't how well it is doing by todays standards. This was a very interesting program as it was conceived and if you can find some old stuff about the actual process they used it is pretty interesting stuff.

  3. #3
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default I think you both hit my problem with such 'programs.'

    The human factor. All of the programs started off well and probably did considerable good under their original steers persons. then the Second string took over. Then the third.

    Many today would be barely recognizable to their originators. I think FDR would be upset with what's been done to Social Security for just one example.

    The programs are good and undeniably well intentioned -- the way they are modified by some (including Congress. Especially including Congress...) for their own understanding / misunderstandings of intent and their own purposes (all too often...) -- is not so good. It's not the programs, it's the people and /or system that run them -- or fails to do so...

    I think that can be corrected but it will take a massive message to the Congress to make that happen. That may or may not occur. We'll see what 2012 brings...

    Thank, you, motorfirebox for the civil and intelligent discussion. Intelligent on your side anyway, Slap'll tell you I ain't none too bright, too many HAH landings...

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    ... too many HAH landings...
    Now that's a quote for year 2011
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  5. #5
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    Thank, you, motorfirebox for the civil and intelligent discussion. Intelligent on your side anyway, Slap'll tell you I ain't none too bright, too many HAH landings...
    Slap would tell you that if it hadn't been for senior NCO's and a few Officers like Ken White Slap would probably be in Leavenworth making little rocks out of big rocks. I was just a little over 18 years old when I told the E-5 promotion board I had figured out how whoop Karl Marx A@@ anytime anyplace.


    All you need is a PUBLIC BANK. This is a clip for the public state bank of California initiative. At the national Level America needs the Abraham Lincoln National Bank.....not the Federal Reserve. Honest Abe freed us from the concept of human slavery and bank slavery by telling folks the truth. We don't have to have slaves and we don't have to borrow a single dollar from the Tali-Banksters.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vJR...ature=youtu.be



    Let Freedom Ring!

  6. #6
    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Default Commanding Heights

    All,

    This video (Slapout inspired no doubt ) is about the evolution of the world economy (1914 to 'today'), it is watchable from your computer, and has closed captioning for those of us whose hearing has had a workout over the years.

    Episode I - The Battle of Ideas

    A global economy, energized by technological change and unprecedented flows of people and money, collapses in the wake of a terrorist attack .... The year is 1914.
    Episode II - The Agony of Reform

    As the 1980s begin and the Cold War grinds on, the existing world order appears firmly in place. Yet beneath the surface powerful currents are carving away at the economic foundations.
    Episode III - The New Rules of the Game

    With communism discredited, more and more nations harness their fortunes to the global free-market. China, Southeast Asia, India, Eastern Europe and Latin America all compete to attract the developed world's investment capital, and tariff barriers fall. In the United States Republican and Democratic administrations both embrace unfettered globalization over the objections of organized labor.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/
    Sapere Aude

  7. #7
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferbeetle View Post
    All,

    This video (Slapout inspired no doubt ) is about the evolution of the world economy (1914 to 'today'), it is watchable from your computer, and has closed captioning for those of us whose hearing has had a workout over the years.
    They forgto to call me, they got a couple of things wrong or at least don't understand them that well. But don't worry I'LL fix it
    Thanks for posting the link, I'll get back when I finish watching them all, but so far some really good stuff in there.

  8. #8
    Council Member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    ... if it hadn't been for senior NCO's and a few Officers like Ken White Slap would probably be in Leavenworth making little rocks out of big rocks.
    In those days senior U.S. Army NCOs knew how to handle members of the various ethnic groups from the American South. They knew that their periods of industriousness and dedication would occasionally be followed by episodes of indolence and foot-dragging. Now and then they'd overindulge themselves or wind up landing themselves in trouble.

    Other than that, we're just good ole' County Boys.

    Were it not for the professionalism of the U.S. Army NCO Corps back then we would not have the mulicultural nation and service that we do today.

  9. #9
    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Default Think globally, act locally?

    Slap,

    Glad you enjoy the series as much as I do. Your links are always interesting, the Walt Disney Airpower series way back when blew my mind.

    All,

    One can argue that an education enables one to connect the global flow of information and commerce. This connection has the potential to strengthen the connected, strengthen communities, and place positive pressure upon various elites (political, economic, military, etc.) to act in a responsible manner which benefits the whole.

    With respect to outcomes, actions speak louder than rhetoric. We can observe that various organizations & individuals, state sponsored and transnational, consistently allocate capital (land, labor, entrepreneurship, organization, management, etc) across the globe in order to provide education to various demographics - (The spectrum includes local schools & universities, Catholic Schools, Madrassas, NGO's, IO's, SF Trainers, CA-Bubba's, etc). Some efforts are more efficient than others. Irrespective of efficiencies, all recognize the 'empowering' value of an education.

    Visible points of measurement of educational effectiveness include International Trade, Capital Flows, and Jobs.

    Business models for education are evolving. You, I, our relatives, and global inhabitants are no longer educationally circumscribed by various actors. An education enables one to connect the global flow of information and commerce.

    Each of us can positively change the world at some level if we choose. Khan Academy pass it on...
    Sapere Aude

  10. #10
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Hi Beetle,
    How about this? Land,Labor,Capitol,etc. the old factors of production may or may not have been OK for local production but Globalization is Long Range production. So the new factors are Time,Distance,and Energy. Don't think that is a sustainable model no matter what viewpoint you have Capitalism,Communism, or any other ism out there.

    We need a new ism....Civil Engieeringism

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