The new Libya: various aspects

[Rex Brynen]

Oh my god.

Where does this obsession with ManPADS come from?

Because a single MANPADS against a fully loaded 747 at LaGuardia would have dramatic effects on US policy, and a single MANPAD used successfully against an Israeli civilian airliner at Ben Gurion could have regional strategic effects for a decade or more.

There are lots of psychological, political, and other reasons for that. But we have to deal with realities as they are, and no amount of "more people drown in their bath tubs" would make any difference.

[Fuchs]

... so could a swarm of geese. So what?

I'm so tired of irrational people doing stupid things.
Especially so if it leads to people killing each other, or accepting poverty.

[Rex Brynen]

... so could a swarm of geese. So what?

You and I both know that a swarm of geese downing an airliner would not have the same political effects as some AQ wannabe doing it.

(Unless, of course, they were jihadist geese.)

[ganulv]

I’m watching a reporter on Galavisión tour Gaddafi’s compound and a guy wearing a shirt that said <Strength Through Christ> was just standing in front of the camera yelling, “Allahu Akbar!” As second hand clothing moments go I think that tops even my girlfriend’s story of being at an Eid sacrifice in Burkina Faso where one of the participants was wearing a White Power t-shirt.

[Fuchs]

Why? Jesus is one of their prophets, and not necessarily a lesser one than Mohammed.

[ganulv]

Why? Jesus is one of their prophets, and not necessarily a lesser one than Mohammed.

Jesus is certainly important in Islam but there is no Resurrection tradition in Islam ergo no Christ. But trust a Southerner, it was an über-Evangelical t-shirt. Jesus has a place in Islam but Mohammed has no place in Evangelicalism. Well, Apostate #1, maybe.

There is a great moment in Of Gods and Men that touches on exactly what you’re talking about, though.

[carl]

Ken:

I have to learn to write more clearly. People seem to misunderstand me a lot. I will strive to do better.

Please notice that in post #44 I used a phrase something like "are involved in an important way." That means we already paid our dues and have a lot of clout which will make it easier for us to definitely track those missiles down if that can be done. I did not advocate increasing the level of our involvement escpecially when it comes to putting ground troops down. I don't believe I ever advocated that beyond a very limited number of trainers, log guys and maybe some secret JTAC types, none of which I would be surprised to see we have already done. Next time I will get my words in agreement and use "will" where I used "would".

I actually think that up to now, we have handled this thing pretty well and it is working out well for us. That may change tomorrow but it is looking OK now. We took care of the heavy weapons and the rebels did the rest as they should have. Now come the long frustrating part and it is for them to handle.

People tend to underestimate the effect of SA-24s getting out could have. The Russians use it themselves and have only sold it to two other countries. It is my understanding they generally only do that with things that really work well. A publication of the Society of Old Crows, ''Of Arrows and Needles'', says those things are scary good missiles:http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...es-Russia.html. If they ended up in Afghanistan the impact they would have would be far beyond a morale effect or giving aircrews justification for combat pay. They might threaten the ability of our forces to operate with the help of all the low level slow movers, to include helos, ISR assets, fixed wing gunships and maybe even A-10s. That is a big thing. That is a huge thing.

Fuchs:

You seem a bit testy. Those missiles are actually present in Libya. The situation in Libya is chaotic. It can be reasonably concluded that they may end up here, there, anywhere and should be gotten control of. This is hardly in the realm of contemplating equiping all civil airliners with anti-missile systems which is what I assume you were talking about in your blog post.