Ten myths about Afghanistan

[davidbfpo]

A comparative article that IMO sits well here, although I will cross refer on the Soviets in Afg thread and is sub-titled:

On 7 October 2001, American-British air raids and Special Forces spearheaded an invasion of Afghanistan that resulted in the removal of the Taliban regime and the country’s occupation by the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf). Ten years later, Bruno De Cordier ponders to what extent this episode bears any similarity to the decade-long Soviet occupation of the country.

It ends with:

In a way, both projects were to some degree sincere and well-meant. Yet both were roughly confronted with the limits of voluntarism, especially as what they wanted to build has and had little social base in the country. As one Afghan parliamentarian from Ghazni told me, “they both relied too long on the wrong Afghans, the sort of people that they wanted everyone to be and not those that are our real society.”

Link:opendemocracy.net/opensecurity/bruno-de-cordier/parallel-frontlines-ten-years-of-soviet-and-american-occupation-compar

[MikeF]

A comparative article that IMO sits well here, although I will cross refer on the Soviets in Afg thread and is sub-titled:

It ends with:

Link:opendemocracy.net/opensecurity/bruno-de-cordier/parallel-frontlines-ten-years-of-soviet-and-american-occupation-compar

David, you might also be interested in this one

This official describes the Pro Soviet politicians in Afghanistan as “a bunch of quislings who require 100,000 troops to protect them

Why Carter Renewed Plan for Afghanistan transition

[davidbfpo]

MikeF,

It is a long time since I was reading on the pre-Soviet era in Afghanistan. My recollection is that in the cities there was a significant support for change, not necessarily Communist or pro-Soviet and following Afghan tradition very factional. IIRC 'Flag' and 'Parcham' were their names.

Secondly I recall meeting in Peshawar in the early nineties an Afghan observer who related the story of the local reaction to the first wave of Afghan refugees from the cities, who were professionals, middle class and quite sophisticated - who quickly settled in or moved on, abroad or to other cities. Years later when rural Afghans arrived they were stunned at how different they were, who settled in huge refugee camps around the city.

I'm not surprised at the US official's remark, but I have my doubts that then the USA had really in depth knowledge of what was happening in Afghanistan. Did the USA not then rely on Pakistan's ISI for much of their information and understanding?

As the opening post here referred to the 'Quisling' regime managed to stay in power for two if not three years after the Soviets left.

[MikeF]

MikeF,

It is a long time since I was reading on the pre-Soviet era in Afghanistan. My recollection is that in the cities there was a significant support for change, not necessarily Communist or pro-Soviet and following Afghan tradition very factional. IIRC 'Flag' and 'Parcham' were their names.

Secondly I recall meeting in Peshawar in the early nineties an Afghan observer who related the story of the local reaction to the first wave of Afghan refugees from the cities, who were professionals, middle class and quite sophisticated - who quickly settled in or moved on, abroad or to other cities. Years later when rural Afghans arrived they were stunned at how different they were, who settled in huge refugee camps around the city.

I'm not surprised at the US official's remark, but I have my doubts that then the USA had really in depth knowledge of what was happening in Afghanistan. Did the USA not then rely on Pakistan's ISI for much of their information and understanding?

As the opening post here referred to the 'Quisling' regime managed to stay in power for two if not three years after the Soviets left.

I don't know. My takeaway is that this particular host nation was unable to protect itself once the intervening/occupying force left.

[Bob's World]

I don't know. My takeaway is that this particular host nation was unable to protect itself once the intervening/occupying force left.

Mike,

This happens all the time (not every time) when a foreign power intervenes to elevate one side artificially to the top, and then dedicates itself to the preservation of that solution against internal challenges for some time, and then ultimately tires of those duties and leaves that illegitimate regime to its own fate.

Not unlike planting some species of plant in your yard from a totally different ecosystem. Through hard efforts you can create an artifical environment and keep it alive against the attacks which will naturally arise from the environment you placed it in, but left to its own devices it cannot endure.

Most of the Northern Alliance that we work with are of the same group the Soviets worked with. I see no reason whey they would be any more sustainable on their own now than they were then.

The fact that we have been as dedicated to keeping one segment of the populace down and out as we have been to elevating another segment up and in is what doomed our efforts. With a better understanding of Pashtunwali we could have worked a deal with Mullah Omar to get access to AQ without all of this. With a better understanding of Pashtunwali and the nature of the historic agreement between the Pak government and their largely self-governing Pashtun populace we could have conducted some number of precise raids into the Pashtun region of that country to exact revenge on AQ members hiding there with little push back from the Pashtun hosts and little disruption to the nation of Pakistan. Instead we tried to do it all on our terms by our rules IAW our doctrine. No amount of good tactics and hard effort is likely to overcome that contextual reality.

[MikeF]

Here's what Waldo said,

"Undoubtedly we have no questions to ask which are unanswerable. We must trust the perfection of the creation so far, as to believe that whatever curiosity the order of things has awakened in our minds, the order of things can satisfy. Every man's condition is a solution in hieroglyphic to those inquiries he would put. He acts it as life, before he apprehends it as truth. In like manner, nature is already, in its forms and tendencies, describing its own design. Let us interrogate the great apparition, that shines so peacefully around us. Let us inquire, to what end is nature?" Emerson, On Nature

[120mm]

Myth 11
(a) Pashtuns are the majority in Afghanistan
(b) The CSO statistical figure of 42% Pashtun is based in anything besides politico-ethnically motivated lies.
(c) Afghanistan is a "tribal" country
(d) Pashtuns are the representative face of Afghanistan