Results 1 to 20 of 293

Thread: Green on Blue: causes and responses (merged thread)

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    US-Afghan military operations suspended

    Most joint U.S.-Afghan military operations have been suspended following what authorities believe was an insider attack Sunday that left six NATO troops dead, including four Americans, officials told NBC News.

    “We’re to the point now where we can’t trust these people,” a senior military official said. So far this year, 51 NATO troops have been killed in these so-called blue-on-green attacks ...
    So are we at the point where force protection matters more than winning, or even holding?
    Last edited by tequila; 09-18-2012 at 01:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SOCAL
    Posts
    2,152

    Default

    This popped up in CNN today. Seems like a pretty clear case of imbalance in conflict resolution skills between Green and Blue.

    Oceanside, New York (CNN) -- Deployed to a volatile outpost in southern Afghanistan where U.S. Marines routinely face a mix of skirmishes and hidden explosives, Greg Buckley Jr. sensed that an attack was imminent.

    And he knew that it would come from within.

    The 21-year-old Marine was posted to Garmsir in Helmand Province, where he was training local security forces as part of NATO's planned withdrawal in 2014.

    It was during a static-filled phone call to his father over the summer that the Long Island native mentioned a run-in he had with an Afghan trainee while on guard duty.

    NATO releases details of brazen raid on base in Afghanistan


    When friends become enemies The encounter was the first in which the Buckley family's eldest son seemed to sense something was wrong, according to what he told his family in phone conversations and a letter.

    "The guy turned around and said to Greg, 'We don't want you here. We don't need you here,'" his dad said.

    "Greg turned around again and said, 'Why would you say that?'" according to Greg Buckley Sr.

    But the trainee apparently wouldn't relent, repeating the phrases for hours over the course of a night in which the young Marine was on guard watch.

    "Greg said, 'I thought I was going to lose my mind,'" his father said. "Pitch black out, and all he kept saying over and over again is, 'We don't want you. We don't need you. We don't want you.'"

    "It was just tormenting for him."

    The two men then finally confronted each other, yelling until a group of officers separated them, he told his father.

    "One of his superiors came over and had Greg apologize to the guy," said the elder Buckley.

    The 21-year-old agreed and extended his hand, but the man refused.

    About a month later, Greg phoned his father again.

    "He told me if I have to stay here until November... I'm not going to come home."

    Greg also asked his father to prepare to tell his mother and his two younger brothers that he'd be killed.

    "I don't understand," his father said. "Out in the field?'

    "No, in our base," Greg replied.

    4 NATO troops killed in 'insider' attack in Afghanistan

    On August 10, 2012, Greg Buckley Jr. was gunned down by the very forces he had been training, just days after learning that he was to head home early.

    "It was only two days he had left there in Afghanistan," his father told CNN.

    The phenomenon is known as "green-on-blue," due to a color-coding system used by NATO. It has become disturbingly more frequent in Afghanistan, with more than 50 NATO troops killed this year by local forces, the first time that's happened in a single year in the U.S.-led war.

    Last year, 35 people died in such insider attacks, and even less the year before, according to NATO figures.

    The killings have prompted suspensions of training new recruits while eroding the trust between NATO and its Afghan allies.

    The gunman involved in Greg's death attacked from inside his outpost and killed two other fellow Marines, his dad said.

    But Greg Sr. said his son had informed his superior officers that "one day they are going turn around and turn those weapons on us."

    CNN cannot independently confirm that Greg informed superior officers. Calls and emails to NATO's International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan were not immediately returned.

    More than a decade after the war began, the Buckley family is now struggling to cope with the loss of its eldest son. More than 2,000 other U.S. service members have been killed in Operation Enduring Freedom.

    "It's not really day-by-day," said Greg's mother, Marina Buckley. "It's more minute-by-minute."

    Back in Oceanside, the Buckley family on Friday attended the town's first home football game, where their fallen son had intended to watch his youngest brother play varsity for the first time.

    "Greg was supposed to be home for this game," said Justin, 17, who wore the number 30 on his back, Greg's old basketball number.

    "I would tell him I love him and I miss him."

    The senior running back, who donned a camouflage jersey along with his team, broke to the outside on Friday for a 25-yard score that helped cement the Sailors' improbable second-half comeback against top-ranked East Meadow.

    After crossing into the end zone, Justin raised his hand to salute -- honoring his fallen brother.

  3. #3
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    So are we at the point where force protection matters more than winning, or even holding?
    Winning? Our strategy was never about winning, it was about getting out of dodge with some semblance of honor.
    Supporting "time-limited, scope limited military actions" for 20 years.

  4. #4
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    It will be interesting to see, in the sense that the way a ship founders exactly is interesting to a naval architect, how fast things begin to unravel from here. It will also be interesting, in a sort of bureaucratic forensic sense, to see how everybody on our side scrambles to blame somebody else or explain how things are actually going well.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  5. #5
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,366

    Default Dry statistics

    Afghan 'green-on-blue' attacks

    2007 - 2 attacks, 2 Isaf soldiers dead
    2008 - 2 attacks, 2 dead
    2009 - 6 attacks, 10 dead
    2010 - 6 attacks, 20 dead
    2011 - 21 attacks, 35 dead
    2012 (so far) - 36 attacks, 51 dead
    Source: International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) via BBC:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19632779
    davidbfpo

  6. #6
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,189

    Default

    The expansion of this activity in 2011 does not match the rather steady expansion of general incidents over the last years.

    It should be possible to identify something that changed in 2011 or 2010 as an important influence on the problem.

  7. #7
    Council Member TheCurmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    1,117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    The expansion of this activity in 2011 does not match the rather steady expansion of general incidents over the last years.

    It should be possible to identify something that changed in 2011 or 2010 as an important influence on the problem.
    Maybe this? Obama announces Afghanistan troop withdrawal plan June 22, 2011.

    They know we are leaving so they don't have to pretend that they like us anymore. Vast oversimplification, but you never know...
    "I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."

    Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
    ---

  8. #8
    Council Member TheCurmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    1,117

    Default Endgame strategy?

    Nato says it is restricting operations with Afghan troops following a string of deadly attacks on its personnel by rogue Afghan security forces.

    Only large operations will now be conducted jointly, with joint patrols evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
    Nato curbs Afghan joint patrols over 'insider' attacks

    Doesn't really address the inside-the-wire threat.
    "I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."

    Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
    ---

  9. #9
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCurmudgeon View Post
    Maybe this? Obama announces Afghanistan troop withdrawal plan June 22, 2011.

    They know we are leaving so they don't have to pretend that they like us anymore. Vast oversimplification, but you never know...
    Really? They think they won so they double their efforts to kill, including kill themselves?
    Must be some non-European logic, for sure.

  10. #10
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    The expansion of this activity in 2011 does not match the rather steady expansion of general incidents over the last years.

    It should be possible to identify something that changed in 2011 or 2010 as an important influence on the problem.
    I imagine this might have something to do with it:

    Since 2009, the army has grown more than 56 percent, Hill said. In the past year, it's grown by about 50,000 soldiers, more than 23,000 of them are in training, and the army consistently meets its recruiting goals, he added.


    It's tough to imagine any army growing that fast without loosening vetting standards or adopting a simple "push 'em out" style of training. And that's just the ANA - I can't imagine standards in the ANP, much less the Afghan Local Police.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •