Al-Qaeda in Africa (merged thread)

[Stan]

Top 50 list of what? The are local terrorists. There very operations make them such. What I say is, "Boko Haram is the most ACTIVE terrorist group on the planet." Ok, that may be a bit of stretch, I am not as aware of the world as I am Africa. Yet, one would be hard pressed to find as many operations carried out by any group over the past 6 months.

It is no surprise that, to me, that Boko Haram does not appear on any "top 50 list", if such exists. Americans and westerners are mostly unaware of or discount much of what goes on in Africa.

Just a few of the watch lists that you can freely access, which include Africa, are as follows:

CDI Terrorism Project

U.S.-Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations

Not sure what you conclude is a "local terrorist" and why their operations are so unique (communal tension, radical and anti-West, robbing banks, blowing up churches and shooting government employees as if these are something new to the region). If Boko Haram was in fact the most active terrorist group on the planet, they would certainly have made one of the lists. I beg to differ on who has carried out the greatest number of operations over a 6-month period (assuming this is part of the criteria).

One of the reasons I am concerned about said predictions and false perceptions is, if they have yet to act like terrorists or even be slightly classified as such, they are not even on the radar screen and all this hyperbole about perceived US intervention is Bravo Sierra. Yes, this may change and when that day comes, let the presumptions fly !

Exactly, I am not ignorant or unaware of that fact. What Nigeria is on the verge of right now is a much wider spread battle between Christians and Muslims than has been seen there in recent history. Many who live there see this coming, in fact it may well already be spreading.

And you contribute that to exactly what ? I see it as nothing more than the "political powers to be" playing on the same fears and ignorance as they have done for four decades following independence. It is more about the dictatorship than it is about the impoverished.

If there were a USG link for it, it wouldn't be a rumor would it? The rumors about US involvement have been discussed right here on this forum in the Nigeria area. It is a rumor, sure not much different than rumors of involvement elsewhere. The only difference is Nigeria is Africa's most populous country, there is substantial oil heading for the USA everyday from Nigeria's Delta region. Are our memories too short to remember what oil has to do with US military involvement? But still it is only a rumor, don't get so upset, YET.

I don’t believe we discussed rumors of US intervention as much as we have discussed the need for the West to stay out of Nigeria’s mess. Going over State and other USG sources does not reveal even the slightest hint of assistance. Stirring the pot is not helping.

How much oil do you conclude is substantial ?

Nigeria is dead last on the list of major oil exporters to the USA and even that list only accounts for 69% of total imports. (BTW, Canada is still the number one exporter to the USA.)

I’d love to have something solid to chomp on regarding oil and US Military involvement. You must have meant to say USG involvement because you certainly know that the US Military does not dictate her destinations and fights. Don’t you ?

[Dayuhan]

I don't think anyone in the US government or military is seriously contemplating involvement in Nigeria. Last thing most of them would want, really. That of course will not stop rumors and speculation.

[Chowing]

Not sure what you conclude is a "local terrorist" and why their operations are so unique (communal tension, radical and anti-West, robbing banks, blowing up churches and shooting government employees as if these are something new to the region).

Boko Haram is considered a terrorist group by many. Here is a recent source

For those reading the news about Africa, both of you, Nigeria is under terrorist attack and preparing military operations against a group called Boko Haram, an Islamic group from the North, more accurately centered in Niger, a nation to the north, a cesspool of international intrigue.

This comes from Gordon Duff, Senior Editor of Veteran's Day Journal http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11...r-destruction/

and all this hyperbole about perceived US intervention is Bravo Sierra. Yes, this may change and when that day comes, let the presumptions fly !

I merely said it was a rumor, a rumor. There have been enough places, including here, that such has been talked about. I never called it a fact or anything close to it.

And you contribute that to exactly what ? I see it as nothing more than the "political powers to be" playing on the same fears and ignorance as they have done for four decades following independence. It is more about the dictatorship than it is about the impoverished.

Bombs going off and killing people and Boko Haram claiming that they were responsible, that is a WHOLE LOT MORE than political powers playing of fears.

How much oil do you conclude is substantial? Nigeria is dead last on the list of major oil exporters to the USA and even that list only accounts for 69% of total imports. (BTW, Canada is still the number one exporter to the USA.)

To make the list at all, means 'substantial.'

[Stan]

Chowing,
I know you and I don't always see eye-to-eye herein, but you do tend to make your point.

Gordon Duff is a source ? Have you read his other stuff ?

I prefer factual evidence and I'm anal about that as is happens to be my job.
So when one says "bombs" and "rumor" to me that's just vague. The forensic evidence clearly indicates the use of military ordnance and rumor is just that.

Of course the Christians are in the process of fighting back as they have for years. I would expect nothing less. But, that doesn't immediately translate into terrorism IMO.

Some of us clearly disagree on whether or not the events are norm, or, on the road to escalation. The Nigeria thread is booming and your participation there would be most welcome - your call.

EDIT: I'm done posting here

[Chowing]

Here are Ham's fears, stated sometime ago, that al-Qaeda and al-Shabaab link is dangerous for the US as well.

"If you ask me what keeps me awake at night, it is the thought of an American passport-holding person who transits through a training camp in Somalia and gets some skill and then finds their way back into the United States to attack Americans here in our homeland," General Carter Ham, the head of the United States Africa Command, said late last year.

That link is somewhat more formal and confirmed now.

News that Harakat Al-Shabaab - long associated with al Qaeda but never formally welcomed into the family - has gotten the blessingp from al Qaeda's leader seems to be a merger that was a long time coming. But the announcement does raise concerns that that the Somali terror group could help them in plotting to attack on U.S. soil.

Both of the above quotes come from the same link.
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...-new-concerns/

[KingJaja]

Chowing,

Does everything have to revolve around America?

General Ham is free to say what he likes but if the metric for measuring America's concern about BH is real or imaginary links to Al Qaeda then American reasoning and policy in the Sahel region is badly flawed.

I appreciate that America needs to have an American centric foreign policy, but sometimes America needs to do things simply because they are the right things to do. Not everything should be subjected to a binary test of whether US interests are involved.

I am not suggesting that America should get involved in the fight against BH, but senior American policy makers/officials need to understand that there is an entire world listening to their words and the motivation behind them.

America is the most activist major power on earth. America has called on many nations (including my own) to take on sacrifices in blood and treasure to support American strategic interests. If they atmospherics suggest that America is only narrowly focused on what it percieves as its core interests - then well and good, but don't just expect a more democratic Africa to support America with the traditional levels of enthusiasm next time around.

Alternatively, US Army generals could shut their mouths and cease speculating on the internal affairs of African states.

[Ken White]

Sadly...

[Dayuhan]

I appreciate that America needs to have an American centric foreign policy, but sometimes America needs to do things simply because they are the right things to do. Not everything should be subjected to a binary test of whether US interests are involved.

I am not suggesting that America should get involved in the fight against BH, but senior American policy makers/officials need to understand that there is an entire world listening to their words and the motivation behind them.

What would you have America do, or say?

It sometimes seems as if when America notices Africa, the reaction is "stay out of our business"; when America doesn't notice the reaction is "why are you ignoring Africa"? Of course when that dichotomy comes up the reaction is always that the attention given is the wrong sort, but what's the right sort? Other than sending lots of money, of course...

[KingJaja]

What would you have America do, or say?

It sometimes seems as if when America notices Africa, the reaction is "stay out of our business"; when America doesn't notice the reaction is "why are you ignoring Africa"? Of course when that dichotomy comes up the reaction is always that the attention given is the wrong sort, but what's the right sort? Other than sending lots of money, of course...

1. Label Boko Haram as a terrorist organisation - which it is. Stop all the verbal gymnastics and second guessing.
2. Appreciate that the primary concern of Africans is not links between any group and AQIM, but loss of life and limb.
3. Get your policy makers (especially our dear general) to appreciate that fact.
4. Show some more concern for the victims of the attacks, do not reduce the discussion to "Western interests this" and "Western interests that".
5. Get out of the way.