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  1. #1
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    Is there a link to a good online account of the entire siege somewhere? I read today that 5 terrorists were killed. By all accounts, there were more to start with, so what happened to the rest? and how did these five die in the end?

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    Sadly, a lot of this kind of thing will happen in future in Africa.

    It's complicated - but where Islam meets Christianity in Africa, the borders are bloody. True, the assault by Al Shabaab is driven by Kenya's involvement in Somalia - but what about Mali, Northern Nigeria and Zanzibar (where acid is being thrown on non-Muslims).

    A lot of Africa is poor and a lot of the poor Africans are Muslims and as long as poverty persists, Islamic fundamentalism is likely to persist.

    Sorry if I seem to veer off on a tangent, but 180 people (or thereabouts) were killed in North East Nigeria around the same time. This thing is more than "a war on terror", this is an ideology, a belief system, a theology - many reasons might be given, but the thing that worries me is this:

    There is no effective counter-narrative to jihadism within the Muslim community. None.

    Jihadism isn't rational, what does it take for young men to willingly blow themselves up?

    Africa is the worst continent to do your suicide bombing in the long run - eventually there will be a local solution to the suicide bombing problem, it will be extremely ugly - but mark my words, it will be effective.

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Some details on the preparation of the attack:
    Attack in Kenya was rehearsed, U.S. officials say

    The plot to attack an upscale mall in Nairobi was hatched weeks or months ago on Somali soil by the militant Islamist group al-Shabab, and a team of English-speaking foreign fighters was carefully selected, the New York Times reported Tuesday, citing unnamed U.S. officials.

    The blueprints of the Westgate mall were studied, down to the ventilation ducts. The attack was rehearsed and the team dispatched, slipping undetected through Kenya's porous borders, often patrolled by underpaid — and deeply corrupt — border guards, according to the officials.

    A day or two before Saturday's attack, powerful belt-fed machine guns were secretly stashed in a shop in the mall with the help of a colluding employee, the officials said. At least one militant had packed a change of clothes so he could slip out with fleeing civilians after the killings were done.
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/world/a...ls-say/2143787

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJaja View Post
    Sadly, a lot of this kind of thing will happen in future in Africa.

    It's complicated - but where Islam meets Christianity in Africa, the borders are bloody. True, the assault by Al Shabaab is driven by Kenya's involvement in Somalia - but what about Mali, Northern Nigeria and Zanzibar (where acid is being thrown on non-Muslims).

    A lot of Africa is poor and a lot of the poor Africans are Muslims and as long as poverty persists, Islamic fundamentalism is likely to persist.

    Sorry if I seem to veer off on a tangent, but 180 people (or thereabouts) were killed in North East Nigeria around the same time. This thing is more than "a war on terror", this is an ideology, a belief system, a theology - many reasons might be given, but the thing that worries me is this:

    There is no effective counter-narrative to jihadism within the Muslim community. None.

    Jihadism isn't rational, what does it take for young men to willingly blow themselves up?

    Africa is the worst continent to do your suicide bombing in the long run - eventually there will be a local solution to the suicide bombing problem, it will be extremely ugly - but mark my words, it will be effective.
    What are they waiting on? This has been going on for years, yet the response in most cases has been fairly tame. People fighting for survival won't and probably shouldn't play by our rules. We wouldn't follow our rules if we were seriously threatened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    What are they waiting on? This has been going on for years, yet the response in most cases has been fairly tame. People fighting for survival won't and probably shouldn't play by our rules. We wouldn't follow our rules if we were seriously threatened.
    Please read this:

    Volunteer Vigilance Youths Group (VVYG) otherwise known as 'Civilian JTF' on Thursday arrested and set ablaze an alleged notorious Boko Haram sect member at Gwange ward in Maiduguri, Borno State capital, residents and witnesses said.

    This is the second time the youths would burn a suspected member of the Boko Haram in less than a week.

    Some of the vigilante members who took part in the burning said the suspect had once killed and burned a soldier in the area sometime last year.

    The claim could not be verified from the spokesman of the Joint Task Force, JTF, Lt Col Sagir Musa but a security source confirmed that the youths had burnt the suspect.

    "This (the action of the vigilantes) is a serious source of concern to us... jungle justice is a crime in itself and we want parents to caution their wards against it," the source said.

    Weekly Trust gathered that the suspected Boko Haram member had led insurgents in the killing of many people and perpetrated "many atrocities" at Gwange Sabon Layi.

    "The actions of the suspect who fled to the forest last December prompted soldiers to sack residents from the area," a resident of Gwange said.

    One of the vigilantes also corroborated. "Only Allah knows how eager we were to catch that guy (burnt suspect) alive. As a result of his bad deeds, soldiers sacked and closed our area completely. But we were then told that the guy had escaped into the forest. Some even believed that he has been killed since. We were on operations when we saw him.

    "On seeing him, all the youths shouted 'here he is'. Then everyone of us was jubilating, seeing our 'wanted guy'.

    "So, we instantly reminded him of what he did last year, but to our surprise, he started begging us to pardon him. As he was crying, we tied him up, poured fuel on his body and set him on fire. No pity for Boko Haram sect members at all now. Thousands have been displaced and hundreds were killed because of his bad deeds," the vigilante said.
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201307270089.html

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    The Shebaab claim they killed 137 hostages. Still at least 50 persons MIA in Westgate. Will be difficult to find out as the roof collapsed.

    Al-Shabaab claim 137 hostages killed at Westgate

    The Al-Shabaab insurgents claimed on Wednesday that they had killed 137 hostages during the Westgate Mall siege, figures impossible to verify and higher than the number of people officially registered as missing.

    The fighters, in a message posted on Twitter, said "137 hostages who were being held by the mujahedeen" had died.

    They also accused the Kenya Defence forces of using "chemical agents" to end the four-day stand-off.

    "In an act of sheer cowardice, beleaguered Kenyan forces deliberately fired projectiles containing chemical agents," one tweet read.

    "To cover their crime, the Kenyan government carried out a demolition to the building, burying evidence and all hostages under the rubble."
    http://m.news24.com/kenya/National/N...tgate-20130925

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    An interresting article on the Al Shebaab finance and the impact of Westgate attack on Shebaab incomes.

    Shabaab finances face squeeze after Kenya attack


    Al Shabaab's economic strength is vital to its operations because it can pay its thousands of fighters a monthly salary normally varying between $100 to $300 a month.

    That, more than its declared aim of imposing a strict version of Sharia or Islamic law, is the main incentive to join up, Somali researchers say.

    Ironically, al Shabaab's income may have benefited from an upturn in the Somali economy that followed the partial restoration of order in Mogadishu over the past two years and a growth in investment amid hopes of an end to years of war.

    In the wake of the four-day attack by al Shabaab militants on a Nairobi shopping mall in which at least 72 people were killed, Western counter-terrorism agencies are expected to subject the group's sources of financial support to renewed scrutiny, Somali experts say.

    The success of such efforts will depend to a large extent on the choices made by Somalis, in particular the powerful Somali business community in east Africa.

    According to Ken Menkhaus, a leading U.S. scholar of al Shabaab, the most formidable weapon against al Shabaab may be the Somalia expatriate business community in Kenya, which has emerged as a force in property and trade in the past 20 years.
    http://www.courant.com/news/nation-w...,7423755.story

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