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    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    Yep. And there's entire professions dedicated to it so your condescension towards speculation is very much irrelevant to this discussion.
    Yes, fortune-tellers abound. Whether or not there's much point in listening to those who claim the ability to predict the future is another story, unless there's some concrete reason to believe that they actually can. Speculation may be entertaining but it makes a poor basis for policy, and I don't see a great deal that's analytical about it... especially when, as is so often the case, it derives primarily from ideologically driven preconceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    That's what I said... "exposed elites...," "the people harnessing the ideas, et.al...," So what "more" do the people want and from where do they draw their enablers, motivations, and ideals? What ideological language are they speaking? Are they speaking the language of nationalism or Islamism? No, they are speaking the language of liberalism, democracy, and human rights. These things were not suddenly invented in Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya.
    They're tired of being kicked around and they perceive vulnerability on the part of those doing the kicking. I see no connection to "the forces of global capitalism". These are local events driven by local issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    The elites did not necessarily "suck" at governing -- they did what governments are designed to do: maintained the privileges of those in control of it.
    They did it badly and they failed at it, ergo they sucked at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    But that position is not tenable in the international context of democracy, liberalization, modernization, and human rights. So a Tunisian lit himself on fire because he was tired of being beat up by the police -- what was the system in place that compelled him into that situation, and what alternatives exist? Did the Tunisian mob invent democracy? Liberalism?
    Revolts against aging, vulnerable despots have occurred ever since aging, vulnerable despots appeared as a feature of human social organization. I see no special connection to these "forces of global capitalism".
    Last edited by Dayuhan; 01-20-2012 at 12:01 AM.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

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