View Poll Results: Are winning or losing the Iraq War?

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  • Inevitable: we've lost.

    3 9.09%
  • We're losing, but the end remains uncertain.

    16 48.48%
  • Even so far, both sides in play.

    3 9.09%
  • We're winning, but the end remains uncertain.

    8 24.24%
  • Inevitable: we've won.

    1 3.03%
  • Cannot determine at this time.

    2 6.06%
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Thread: Vote: have we lost in Iraq?

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  1. #1
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default Dividing Iraq Might Multiply Problems

    24 November Chicago Sun-Times commentary - Dividing Iraq Might Multiply Problems by Jaroslav Tir and Paul F. Diehl.

    ... Our research indicates that the best time to divide a country along ethnic or religious lines is before tensions escalate to civil war or large-scale violence. Since 1900, mini-states that emerge from peaceful breakups of countries have a 95 percent success rate in avoiding militarized confrontations with each other.

    The bad news is that the optimal time to partition Iraq has passed. The months soon after Saddam Hussein's removal from power in 2003 -- that is, before Iraqi politics came to be dominated by extremist leaders advocating sectarian violence -- provided a window of opportunity for dividing the Iraqi state...

    The partition scenario that now faces Iraq is not as desirable as it once was, but neither is it hopeless. A partition designed to stop a civil war runs the risk of transforming the conflict into an international battleground between the mini-states (e.g., the 1998 war between Ethiopia and Eritrea).

    One might similarly worry about Sunni and Shiite states clashing in the future. Based on past cases of partition carried out after civil war, this is a 50-50 proposition. There is also the risk that the new states will fall prey to future civil wars, but this occurs only a third of the time. Thus, there is reason to hope that a divided Iraq could avoid future problems, but several risks loom on the horizon.

    Given that the Kurdish northern part of Iraq is generally stable and that there is relatively little violence between the Kurds and other major groups, the separation of the Kurds from Iraq could reinforce peace in the north. Yet, this could also activate a potentially dangerous territorial dispute with Turkey, which has a large and rebellious Kurdish population within its own southeastern borders. Any attempts to expand a nascent Kurdish state could ignite a war with Turkey (and perhaps with Iran and Syria as each has significant Kurdish populations). Securing Turkish cooperation for any plan is essential.

    The more problematic scenario is presented by the potential Sunni-Shiite separation. The present sectarian violence suggests that the Shiite and Sunni states would not only be predisposed to fight each other after the separation, but also to experience future civil wars within their own mini-states...

  2. #2
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default We Can Put More Forces in Iraq - and they Would Make a Difference

    4 December issue of the Weekly Standard - We Can Put More Forces in Iraq - and they Would Make a Difference by Frederick Kagan.

    Many months into the debate over finding a new strategy in Iraq, two myths continue to cloud the discussion. The Washington Post recently proclaimed: "The United States and its allies in Iraq would need at least 500,000 and perhaps more than 1 million troops" to bring order to the country. Incoming House majority leader Steny Hoyer declared: "As a practical matter, there are no troops to increase with." Neither of these statements is true. The persistence of these myths forecloses serious consideration of the only option likely to bring peace to Iraq.

    Relevant historical examples do not support the notion that hundreds of thousands more troops are needed to improve security in Iraq. A study of post-conflict operations in the Balkans, Afghanistan, and elsewhere conducted by Ambassador James Dobbins showed that success in those operations--characterized by severe ethnic and sectarian violence--required force ratios of 1 soldier per 100 inhabitants. Iraq poses challenges that are in some respects more severe, at the moment, but it also offers its own rules-of-thumb. Successful clear-and-hold operations in Tal Afar required a force ratio of around 1 soldier (counting both U.S. and Iraqi troops) for every 40 inhabitants. On the other hand, in 2004 Major General Peter Chiarelli suppressed a widespread uprising in Sadr City (an area inhabited by about 2.5 million Shiites) with fewer than 20,000 U.S. soldiers--a ratio of about 1 to 125.

    Then there's the question of the size of the population to be pacified. Most of Iraq is relatively calm. Instances of violence in the Kurdish north and the Shia south are rare. No responsible analyst advocates sending large numbers of troops into either area--they are not needed and would not be welcomed. Disarming the Shia militias is a process that must be undertaken only after the Sunni Arab insurgency is under control, and it cannot be undertaken primarily by American forces directly confronting the Shiite population. Using all of Iraq's 27 million people as a baseline for estimating force ratios is, therefore, an invalid approach.

    The U.S. command repeatedly and correctly points out that about 80 percent of the violence in Iraq occurs within a 35-mile radius of Baghdad, among a population of perhaps 10 million. Baghdad itself has roughly 6.5 million inhabitants, including the 2.5 million Shiites in Sadr City. These figures provide the basis for a more realistic estimate of the force levels needed. Applying the high-end ratio used in Tal Afar over the entire metropolitan Baghdad area would generate a requirement of 250,000 troops--both U.S. and Iraqi. There are currently about 100,000 Iraqi army troops that the U.S. command considers trained and ready. There are almost 150,000 American troops in Iraq now, including perhaps 70,000 combat troops. Conducting Tal Afar-type operations across the entire capital region all at once would require concentrating all available forces in the area and a "surge" of about 80,000 U.S. soldiers--a large number, to be sure, but very far from the "hundreds of thousands" or even "millions" generated by the use of specious historical examples.

    But the situation is not even this dire. Not all areas of the capital region require such an intensive deployment. Indeed, previous successful operations even in Baghdad did not require such high force ratios. What's more, skillful military planners conduct operations in phases, and that is exactly how this one should be prepared and executed. The recent unsuccessful effort to secure Baghdad, Operation Together Forward II, was broken into a series of phases. U.S. and Iraqi troops working together succeeded in clearing the neighborhoods they entered one after the other. But that is not why the operation failed. The problem, according to much anecdotal evidence and the recent testimony of the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, General Michael D. Maples, is that the U.S. military command did not leave American forces behind in the areas that had been cleared. That mistake allowed insurgents to reinfiltrate those neighborhoods and begin the cycle of violence again.

    There is every reason to believe that a reformulated operation, proceeding in phases to clear Baghdad neighborhood by neighborhood, but with sufficient force levels to leave significant American troops behind in the cleared areas, would be much more successful...
    Much more at the link...

  3. #3
    Council Member Culpeper's Avatar
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    The U.S. command repeatedly and correctly points out that about 80 percent of the violence in Iraq occurs within a 35-mile radius of Baghdad, among a population of perhaps 10 million. Baghdad itself has roughly 6.5 million inhabitants, including the 2.5 million Shiites in Sadr City.
    Well than for crying-out-loud, let them kill each other in that radius until they had enough. We're not talking about the entire country of Iraq. It's a 35 mile radius. What we have here is a riot taking place. Send in the LAPD advisors.

  4. #4
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    Default U.S. Didn't Have Enough Troops in Baghdad

    25 November The Australian - U.S. Didn't Have Enough Troops in Baghdad by Kate Legge.

    Australia's Commander-in-Chief, Governor-General Michael Jeffery, believes a lack of troops on the ground in the weeks after the US-led coalition went into Iraq hampered efforts to secure Baghdad.

    In an interview with The Weekend Australian Magazine, Major General Jeffery contrasted early tactics in Iraq with the counter-insurgency campaign he led in Phuoc Tuy province during the Vietnam War. "We were charged with winning the hearts and minds of local people and ensuring they were safe, which is the antithesis of what's happening in Baghdad. People aren't safe," he said.

    Major General Jeffery served in Borneo, Malaya, Papua New Guinea and Vietnam during a 40-year military career.

    As Commander-in-Chief he receives regular briefings from the defence chiefs on troop deployments, not policy.

    He will not say whether Australia's involvement in Iraq is right or wrong because he won't comment on operational matters. However, he defends Australia's intervention in Vietnam.

    "Going in there was right," said Major General Jeffery, who was awarded the Military Cross.

    Reflecting on the initial phase of the Iraqi conflict, in March 2003, the Governor-General said: "There weren't enough soldiers to seal Baghdad off."

    "Because that didn't take place everything went counter to the way the coalition and the Iraqi Government were hoping.

    "A lack of troops, a lack of police, the structures weren't there, the numbers weren't there and this is a vitally important time immediately after the first battles."...

  5. #5
    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Once again they rehash the obvious. Of course more troops should have been there. They were not. We can't turn back time and change that.

    I also agree with Jones_RE about victory. How we define our victory may be meaningless in the context of our enemies' view of victory. The US often seems adrift when victory is something other than (to paraphrase Conan) "to crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women." If we're pushed out of the total victory plane, we suddenly become clueless.

    Methinks yet again we're spending too much time looking at our definition and not enough looking at that of our enemies.

  6. #6
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    Default U.S. Tests Indirect Approach in Iraq

    25 November Baltimore Sun - U.S. Tests Indirect Approach in Iraq by David Wood.

    Tens of thousands of American troops are shifting from combat operations against insurgents to training, advising and supporting Iraqi security forces in what military officials say will require a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq.

    Rather than allowing American troops to withdraw to the sidelines, the new campaign will keep them directly in the violent middle ground between Iraq's warring factions, as increasing numbers of soldiers and Marines embed as combat advisers with Iraqi army and paramilitary police units. Already, some 6,000 Americans serve as advisers with Iraqi police units, for instance, in high-risk operations similar to those that have killed 4,000 Iraqi police officers over the past two years.

    The latest strategic phase, which began this fall and will accelerate in the months ahead, may even require a short-term increase from the 141,000 U.S. troops currently serving in Iraq, senior commanders have said.

    In addition to the advisers, thousands of other U.S. troops are directly supporting Iraq's security forces with communications, logistics and transportation expertise, running convoys and maintenance depots, and providing air support and other assistance the Iraqi units need to operate.

    To protect all these American military personnel - the final numbers aren't yet determined - a sizable "force protection package" will be required in Iraq: quick-reaction combat forces, search and rescue teams, and attack and transport helicopters and strike fighters. These U.S. forces, in turn, will require their own maintenance, logistics, medical, administrative and other support...

  7. #7
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    Default What Military

    I hope this strategy works, but I still don't think the main issue is the ability of the Iraqi security forces to fight, rather it is their will. To borrow John Robb's phraseology from his global guerrilla website, the Iraqi people have converted to primary loyalties based on tribe, not nation. Perhaps our embeded advisors will encourage them to fight for Iraq. In a short period of time I guess we'll see.

  8. #8
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    Default US advisors in Iraq

    I find this is all bit puzzling. Much of the Iraq Army will not fight for the Iraq State, so the US Army sends "advisors."

    What kind of advisors? Philosophers? Mullahs, priests and ministers?

    Who can give men the willingness to die for others? Do we have such people as officers and NCOs in the Army?

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