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Thread: Nine children among 16 dead after US serviceman attacks villagers

  1. #101
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    Default Fine, ganulv,

    opine and pontificate all you want about religion and everything else under the Sun. But, don't quote me for subject matter which is not in the post.

    Personally I think your comments belong in the junior fuzz stickery category; but, as you "rarely overthink statements related to religion made by my fellow Americans", I rarely overthink offhand statements made by you.

    Regards

    Mike

  2. #102
    Council Member ganulv's Avatar
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    Default 0–to–ad hominem in no time flat!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    opine and pontificate all you want about religion and everything else under the Sun. But, don't quote me for subject matter which is not in the post.

    Personally I think your comments belong in the junior fuzz stickery category; but, as you "rarely overthink statements related to religion made by my fellow Americans", I rarely overthink offhand statements made by you.

    Regards

    Mike
    Decorum, counselor! I sense we are at cross-purposes here. Let’s just drop it.
    If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. – Mark Twain (attributed)

  3. #103
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default Anteeksi !

    Mike,

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    So, we remember the artifacts of wars; but more so, we must remember the wars themselves and the men who fought them.
    I don't think we are all that different when it comes to a soldier's view herein. I believe I stated so. With every male member of my family having served and a few with broken Zippos too, I certainly get where you are coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    Those demons can break loose (for no apparent, rational reason), resulting in attempted suicide or attempted murder - and going from attempt to actual is just a trigger squeeze away.
    I've witnessed that event three times and even had the pleasure of packing one kid in a box for home. Not a good experience - not one I intend to endure again. Probably why I am having a hard time merely agreeing with what my gut tells me is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    Just saying
    kissanhännänveto ?

    Regards, Stan
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  4. #104
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    Default Hei Stan:

    Isn't love not saying you're sorry ? Hi, lover - big smacker ! I couldn't resist that. Stan = rehellinen mies (in all three of its positive meanings: honest, straight, fair).

    Our perspectives come from our culture and life experiences. The military and an NRA life membership pin (on my NRA-ILA pool cap, Bro) don't get a discouraging word in the places I frequent. The Detroit Lions and the Green Bay Packers are another story (a pretty much equal civil war). Most bars (if they are smart and want to stay intact) have both teams well represented on their walls.

    Now, don't you start pulling on the tail of a kaunis kissa; pull the donkey's tail instead, and give him the chance to put you into orbit. I'm kidding, of course; but, "Kissanhannanveto" looks something like "he's pulling on the cat".

    Mutta, of course, it means Tug of War - something a lot of us have with respect to this case and within ourselves.

    There is no way to pretty up this mess.

    I took my wife out for dinner tonite. She and the "girls" went down to Madison Thurs for the Wisconsin State Tournament (Bowling) and stayed at a rez (Lac du Flambeau) on the way back Saturday. They had a good time - A world that does not involve young men killing and being killed.

    Regards

    Mike
    Last edited by jmm99; 03-19-2012 at 01:10 AM.

  5. #105
    Council Member Culpeper's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    opine and pontificate all you want about religion and everything else under the Sun. But, don't quote me for subject matter which is not in the post.

    Personally I think your comments belong in the junior fuzz stickery category; but, as you "rarely overthink statements related to religion made by my fellow Americans", I rarely overthink offhand statements made by you.

    Regards

    Mike
    You seem to be very knowledgeable so I don't understand the informative posts and the defensive posts. It is not necessary to respond to every post no matter how petty you may find them. The readers can make that determination on their own, you know. Displaying basic ego defense mechanisms are considered unprofessional here as I learned myself a long time ago. Lets continue..
    "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way?"
    "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"


  6. #106
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    Default Yes,

    Let's.

    Regards

    Mike

  7. #107
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    Default The other side of the debate

    Many willing to cut Afghan shooting suspect slack

    On the website of Iraq Veterans Against the War, organizer Aaron Hughes declared that Afghan war veterans "believe that this incident is not a case of one 'bad apple' but the effect of a continued U.S. military policy of drone strikes, night raids, and helicopter attacks where Afghan civilians pay the price." Those veterans, he wrote, "hope that the Kandahar massacre will be a turning point" in the war.
    http://apnews.myway.com//article/201...D9TJ77TG0.html
    "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way?"
    "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"


  8. #108
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    Default Bales' Platoon Leader Names Himself

    From AP, Army capt.: Afghan killing suspect has saved lives (by Gene Johnson, March 17, 2012):

    SEATTLE—A former platoon leader for the soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians says the allegations are "100 percent out of character" for the man, whom he described as a model soldier who saved other soldiers' lives.

    Army Capt. Chris Alexander, 32, said Robert Bales worked as a stock trader before the Sept. 11 attacks motivated him to enlist in the Army.

    "I've always admired him for that -- he had a good thing going, and he dropped it to serve his country," Alexander said Saturday in a phone interview.

    Bales enlisted about two months after 9/11 and had served with the 3rd Stryker Brigade based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord since Sept 11, 2002.

    He became a staff sergeant in April 2008, following his second deployment in Iraq. He went to Iraq one more time before his fourth deployment, to Afghanistan. ...Alexander was Bales' platoon leader during one of his Iraq missions. He described Bales as "one of the best guys I ever worked with."

    "He always made sure his team was ready, that they were briefed on the mission, that the equipment was checked," Alexander said. "Anything he was given to do, you never had to worry about it getting done and done well."

    Alexander said he and others who served with Bales are stunned by the allegations. ...
    More in story, but substantially the same as the Free Republic posts.

    Regards

    Mike

  9. #109
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    Now, don't you start pulling on the tail of a kaunis kissa; pull the donkey's tail instead, and give him the chance to put you into orbit. I'm kidding, of course; but, "Kissanhannanveto" looks something like "he's pulling on the cat".

    Mutta, of course, it means Tug of War - something a lot of us have with respect to this case and within ourselves.

    Regards

    Mike
    Mike,
    We often use colorful Finnish phrases when an Estonian one either doesn't exist, or, the Finnish one just sounds better.

    In this case, kissanhännänveto roughly translates as: Arguing back and forth about something really not worth arguing over, but which people feel strongly about.

    Meillä on sairas aasi
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  10. #110
    Council Member J Wolfsberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    Arguing back and forth about something really not worth arguing over, but which people feel strongly about.
    Not that any of us would ever do that ...
    John Wolfsberger, Jr.

    An unruffled person with some useful skills.

  11. #111
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Culpeper View Post
    Many willing to cut Afghan shooting suspect slack



    http://apnews.myway.com//article/201...D9TJ77TG0.html
    These folks hold a world view that is increasingly common in our culture, one that is consistantly ready to absolve all individual responsibility and attempt to force it on society. See Burkett's "Stolen Valor" for another take on this, and see Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" for an allegory of fundamental flaws in this (lack of) morality.

  12. #112
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    Default A comparison that may be made

    Amidst the reporting, some clearly inspired, I found a reference to what could become an issue - comparing the case of Aafia Siddiqui, who got 86yrs jail for attempting to shoot US soldiers in Afghanistan and what may happen to Staff. Sgt. Bale.

    Wikipedia on her:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui
    davidbfpo

  13. #113
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    Default

    Amidst the reporting, some clearly inspired, I found a reference to what could become an issue - comparing the case of Aafia Siddiqui, who got 86yrs jail for attempting to shoot US soldiers in Afghanistan and what may happen to Staff. Sgt. Bale.

    Wikipedia on her:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui
    Great analogy. One of America's great problems is the inability to see the World through the eyes of others.

    The wider point is that America in Afghanistan is dead. Dead and gone, it doesn't matter whether America pulls out tomorrow or in the next two years.

  14. #114
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    Jep, a strange twist and analogy.

    ... they stated that there was a lack of scientific and forensic evidence tying Siddiqui to the weapon she allegedly fired
    Seems the same is being used to defend the SSG. I would assume they are referring to fingerprints or perhaps even gunshot/powder residue.

    In a place where a soldier fires his weapon a gazillion times a day, the evidence of gunshot residue is a joke. One would assume his fingerprints are probably still on his weapon, but, I would hope he has had a bath in the last week. This sort of Sierra is weak and yet still stands up in a courts martial
    Last edited by Stan; 03-21-2012 at 01:58 PM.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    Jep, a strange twist and analogy.



    Seems the same is being used to defend the SSG. I would assume they are referring to fingerprints or perhaps even gunshot/powder residue.

    In a place where a soldier fires his weapon a gazillion times a day, the evidence of gunshot residue is a joke. One would assume his fingerprints are probably still on his weapon, but, I would hope he has had a bath in the last week. This sort of Sierra is weak and yet still stands up in a courts martial
    Stan, this is what we call the "CSI effect" in the civilian criminal law world.

    Jurors often have extremely high and unrealistic expections for forensic science after watching the CSI series. Usually a good prosecutor can keep the jury's eye on the ball and cut through the muck, but its never a guarantee.

    Normally one would think a military panel would be somewhat more immune to this effect, mainly due to its higher education composition.

  16. #116
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey Stan,
    (I always wanted to say that without being accused of talking to myself )

    Quote Originally Posted by stanleywinthrop View Post
    Stan, this is what we call the "CSI effect" in the civilian criminal law world.

    Jurors often have extremely high and unrealistic expections for forensic science after watching the CSI series. Usually a good prosecutor can keep the jury's eye on the ball and cut through the muck, but its never a guarantee.

    Normally one would think a military panel would be somewhat more immune to this effect, mainly due to its higher education composition.
    If we even had half of the widgets they do on CSI (sigh).
    We've managed to become part of the judicial process here when it comes to forensics and post blast. It has been a real PITA having arguments with lawyers and defense in a subject area we are considered to be subject matter experts. We are still trying to put away our version of a uni bomber seven years later, once and for all.

    What could possibly be gained from going to the scene weeks later ? His defense lawyer is said to be going to Afghanistan soon (not that that's the healthiest idea). The dead are buried and the shell casings long gone at the black market for scrap metal.

    Regards, Stan
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    What could possibly be gained from going to the scene weeks later ? His defense lawyer is said to be going to Afghanistan soon (not that that's the healthiest idea). The dead are buried and the shell casings long gone at the black market for scrap metal.

    Regards, Stan
    He won't find anything which may be the point. I am guessing, but would that be to the advantage of the defense if defense council argued that when he went to the scene despite strenuous efforts yadda yadda yadda there was nothing to be found, therefore how much credence can you give to the prosecutions evidence. Also could he use dangerous conditions to advantage in order to suggest that conditions are intolerable and would stress the most reasonable person beyond endurance?

    Cue U.P. Mike, stage right.
    Last edited by carl; 03-21-2012 at 08:53 PM.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  18. #118
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    Default Carl:

    No, no comments today.

    Have to confess to drinking - a bit of this:



    However, if someone can point me to an online copy of the original NASD arbitration award, I'd be thankful to him or her. Despite looking for that document on and off yesterday and today, I couldn't find it.

    Regards

    Mike

  19. #119
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    Mike:

    This link leads to a PDF called a broker check report. Click on the blue letters that say Get Detailed Report.

    http://brokercheck.finra.org/Individ...ndvlIACtgry=-1
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  20. #120
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    Default

    Bloomberg seems to covering this story well.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...r-says-2-.html

    In the above linked story the defense attorney mentions lack of eyewitnesses, lack of forensic evidence, putting the war on trail and brain injury. I will wait for Mike's opinion as to how that may or may not show what the defense line will be.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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