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Thread: France, incl. terrorism & counter-terrorism (catch all)

  1. #81
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    Interesting Russian stance:

    Russian troll bots are coming out in support of the Charlie Hebdo attackers.
    pic.twitter.com/Bstu5j8xsZ

    Very scary development that Russian media lying about and #Russia controlled Internet trolls actively support the attack on #CharlieHebdo.

    Russian Orthodox Activists Say #CharlieHebdo Shooting Was 'Just Punishment'
    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...nt/514157.html
    pic.twitter.com/1L2aDAbVlZ

    One should not be surprised at the Russia split personality on jihadi's, Chechnya and Syria.

    Syria's BM-27 'Uragans' can be seen carrying the Soviet VDV (Airborne Troops) insignia
    pic.twitter.com/voEoSAIRkE
    http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2015/9...ing-the-soviet
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-09-2015 at 12:03 PM.

  2. #82
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    Theology can catch up later. Once Western powers (or China, as the case may be) get past their postmodern confusions and ruling elites in several "Muslim" countries decisively turn against the use of Jihadism as a useful tool, the game is up as far as practical problems go. Residual Kharijite cells will wreak havoc in under-governed and ungoverned areas for decades but fewer and fewer people will care.
    Why do I say this? because when I read the history of the last 200 years in our region (and I read a lot of it), I don't see some permanent state of war between Jihadists on one side and modernists/imperialists/whateverists on the other. The theology of Islam was the same as it is today, but it took the CIA and the ISI and Saudi money to convert latent Jihadism into functional terrorist armies. State support was crucial at every step. They are NOT self-sufficent even in propaganda. Now, certainly, they have become more capable and more autonomous over time, but there is still NO comparison between the resources of a modern state and the resources and capabilities of any Jihadist group (not even IS). In Afghanistan (the worst possible case for state building) the new-colonial Afghan state (to use Tariq Ali's phrase for it) would have won outright if another slightly more modern and capable state (Pakistan) had not been determined to resist that outcome.
    They are not supermen. At some level they are just juvenile delinquents. Without the backing of more capable people in the background (STATES), they will be dealt with and either confined to hellholes or wiped out.
    I have to flesh this idea out someday

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by omarali50 View Post
    Theology can catch up later. Once Western powers (or China, as the case may be) get past their postmodern confusions and ruling elites in several "Muslim" countries decisively turn against the use of Jihadism as a useful tool, the game is up as far as practical problems go. Residual Kharijite cells will wreak havoc in under-governed and ungoverned areas for decades but fewer and fewer people will care.
    Why do I say this? because when I read the history of the last 200 years in our region (and I read a lot of it), I don't see some permanent state of war between Jihadists on one side and modernists/imperialists/whateverists on the other. The theology of Islam was the same as it is today, but it took the CIA and the ISI and Saudi money to convert latent Jihadism into functional terrorist armies. State support was crucial at every step. They are NOT self-sufficent even in propaganda. Now, certainly, they have become more capable and more autonomous over time, but there is still NO comparison between the resources of a modern state and the resources and capabilities of any Jihadist group (not even IS). In Afghanistan (the worst possible case for state building) the new-colonial Afghan state (to use Tariq Ali's phrase for it) would have won outright if another slightly more modern and capable state (Pakistan) had not been determined to resist that outcome.
    They are not supermen. At some level they are just juvenile delinquents. Without the backing of more capable people in the background (STATES), they will be dealt with and either confined to hellholes or wiped out.
    I have to flesh this idea out someday
    Flesh it out as you are correct and when the State changes so will the theology ---but right now no one is ready ie State or theology---to make changes.

  4. #84
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    While an interesting Shia statement he tends to forget Shia militia killings and beheadings in Sunni villages and towns currently and their ethnic cleansing in the 2006/07 periods in Iraq.

    The leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group says Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Mohammed more than those who published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.

    Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah did not directly mention the Paris attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo that left 12 people dead, but he said Islamic extremists who behead and slaughter people — a reference to the IS group's rampages in Iraq and Syria — have done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-e...medium=twitter

  5. #85
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    Default Good stuff here IMHO

    In my earlier reading I found these three articles of value and one even more so. Two other pieces on wider CT policy will appear on the current MI5 warning thread.

    Prospect magazine, with a short piece 'After Charlie Hebdo: Muslims in France' and the subtitle we must note:
    Only a handful of French Muslims are violent extremists
    Link:http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/op...shooting-islam

    A long, academic paper written by two Norwegian analysts (why does Norway have so many good analysts on terrorism @ FFI?), which takes a very broad outlook 'The Modus Operandi of Jihadi Terrorists in Europe':http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/.../view/388/html

    A Canadian article on what did the suspect's neioghbours do and know:
    A neighbour in Gennevilliers told The Globe and Mail that she and her husband became so concerned about the behaviour of the Kouachi brothers – whom they could hear loudly reciting the Koran inside their apartment at all hours – that her husband and a friend decided to break in to the Kouachi residence when the brothers left to buy groceries. She said they found a “cache of arms” inside.She said they were caught when the brothers returned home, and that they shoved her husband around and threatened him into silence. That was two months ago.
    Link:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle22372220/


    That is very interesting to the thread 'What & Who discovers terrorist plots?' I started on:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=13925

    Finally I really do think omarali50's post (as below) was superb. The "blowback" aspect should not be forgotten, even if it was seen then and maybe even now as necessary to cause the USSR's downfall.

    Theology can catch up later. Once Western powers (or China, as the case may be) get past their postmodern confusions and ruling elites in several "Muslim" countries decisively turn against the use of Jihadism as a useful tool, the game is up as far as practical problems go. Residual Kharijite cells will wreak havoc in under-governed and ungoverned areas for decades but fewer and fewer people will care.

    Why do I say this? because when I read the history of the last 200 years in our region (and I read a lot of it), I don't see some permanent state of war between Jihadists on one side and modernists/imperialists/whateverists on the other. The theology of Islam was the same as it is today, but it took the CIA and the ISI and Saudi money to convert latent Jihadism into functional terrorist armies. State support was crucial at every step. They are NOT self-sufficent even in propaganda. Now, certainly, they have become more capable and more autonomous over time, but there is still NO comparison between the resources of a modern state and the resources and capabilities of any Jihadist group (not even IS). In Afghanistan (the worst possible case for state building) the new-colonial Afghan state (to use Tariq Ali's phrase for it) would have won outright if another slightly more modern and capable state (Pakistan) had not been determined to resist that outcome.

    They are not supermen. At some level they are just juvenile delinquents. Without the backing of more capable people in the background (STATES), they will be dealt with and either confined to hellholes or wiped out.
    I have to flesh this idea out someday
    davidbfpo

  6. #86
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    This is why the Islamic Learning Centers of the ME must get into the debate between the peace and war wings of Islam as the war wing tends to harbor a number of Islamic interpretations that sometimes do not fit even the Koran.

    Fareed Zakaria writes that death for blasphemy is prescribed in the Bible but not the Koran.

    http://fb.me/7mEeBVdGC

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    While an interesting Shia statement he tends to forget Shia militia killings and beheadings in Sunni villages and towns currently and their ethnic cleansing in the 2006/07 periods in Iraq.

    The leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group says Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Mohammed more than those who published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.

    Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah did not directly mention the Paris attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo that left 12 people dead, but he said Islamic extremists who behead and slaughter people — a reference to the IS group's rampages in Iraq and Syria — have done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-e...medium=twitter
    Rouhani condemns terrorism via twitter - a medium blocked in Iran - while actively funding Shi'ite terrorist group.

    *Irony meter explodes*

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears the Russians know something we do not?

    Major Russian TV network says US intelligence carried out the Charlie Hebdo attack

    http://www.vox.com/2015/1/8/7514439/...bdo-russia-cia …
    Seems the Russian infowar types know more than we do here at SWJ:


    Russia's chief halal expert suggests Paris terrorists were in fact policemen in disguise.

    pic.twitter.com/u2hutFc9GU

  9. #89
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    Now this is what the entire western security services should be doing on a daily basis. So much for the famed NSA.

    Watch: Hacker group says it will avenge #CharlieHebdo attack by shutting down jihadi websites

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-websites.html …
    pic.twitter.com/nvMO0r45SI

  10. #90
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    Notice the not so subtle double standard of the West--we condemn Islamic terrorists in France but utter not a single word when Islamic terrorists fight in the Ukraine.

    "Islamist Terrorists" as the West would call them fight in Ukraine against Ukrainians

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ui0wNlYsZo … …
    pic.twitter.com/vysr7wQKqn

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    This is why the Islamic Learning Centers of the ME must get into the debate between the peace and war wings of Islam as the war wing tends to harbor a number of Islamic interpretations that sometimes do not fit even the Koran.

    Fareed Zakaria writes that death for blasphemy is prescribed in the Bible but not the Koran.

    http://fb.me/7mEeBVdGC
    While many French Muslims in street interviews have condemned the killers as not being Muslims ---the four top Islamic Centers of Learning and Law on the problem with their "fundamentalists" are remarkably silent and therein lies the problem--they could if they wanted to--and yes even I can argue from what I learned from "fundamentalists" in Iraq use the Koran to "prove" they are not Muslims--BUT until we hear the top learning centers utter those words.

    The killing will continue to occur globally.

    HERE is though the problem for the West--while we totally condemn "terrorists" in Paris---we the world and the global media utter not a single word about Chechen Islamists being used by Russia in the Ukraine to kill Ukrainians or we fail to utter a word when our air strikes are killing Syrian/Iraqi civilians and we fail to utter a single word about the latest massacre by BH in Nigeria of over 2000.

    A highly respected US professor and expert in international relations stated something yesterday that is interesting and yet we ignore him-- reality based action can be taken and one still can have your own personal morals---the two do not negate each other.

    Right now we have virtually no foreign policy nor strategies for anything ongoing in the world.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-10-2015 at 08:32 AM.

  12. #92
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    Not clear where this came from, it was on Twitter earlier today.
    davidbfpo

  13. #93
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    Default There Are More French Muslims Working for French Security Than for AQ

    Olivier Roy is a true SME on Islam in France and the title says something we often miss:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/olivie...b_6445582.html

    Roughly speaking, two narratives are conflicting: the dominant one claims that Islam is the main issue, because it puts loyalty toward the faith community before loyalty to the nation, it does not accept criticism, does not compromise on norms and values and condones specific forms of violence like jihad. For the adherents of this narrative, the only solution is a theological reformation that would generate a "good" Islam that is a liberal, feminist and gay-friendly religion. Journalists and politicians are always tracking the "good Muslims" and summoning them to show their credentials as "moderate."On the other side, many Muslims, secular or believers, supported by a multiculturalist left, claim that radicalization does not come from Islam but from disenfranchised youth who are victims of racism and exclusion, and that the real issue is Islamophobia. They condemn terrorism while denouncing the backlash that could in turn radicalize more Muslim youth.
    The problem is that both narratives presuppose the existence of a French "Muslim community" of which the terrorists are a sort of "vanguard."


    The juxtaposition of these two narratives has created a deadlock. To overcome this, it is necessary to first take into account a number of inescapable facts -- facts which we do not want to acknowledge because they show us that the radicalized young people are in no way the vanguard or the spokesmen of the Muslim population, and in particular, that there is no "Muslim community" in France.
    Radicalized young people, who rely heavily on an imagined Muslim politics (the Ummah of earlier times) are deliberately at odds with the Islam of their parents, as well as Muslim culture overall.
    davidbfpo

  14. #94
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    Default A Muslim who does not need to apologize

    The French press via Twitter are reporting that a Malian Muslim employee at the kosher shop, a Lassana Bathily, saved several / six hostages by hiding them in the basement.



    (Added) A report on his actions (in English):http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/paris-te...tages-freezer/

    THis report is in French, I've no idea what it actually says:http://m.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/...o%2FVEGXqxIVQQ
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-10-2015 at 06:45 PM.
    davidbfpo

  15. #95
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    Default Weapons rich?

    Paris chief prosecutor Francois Molins told a press briefing that the two Kouachi brothers and Coulibaly had an arsenal of weapons and had set up booby traps.

    "A M82 rocket launcher with a loaded rocket - I insist on this, a loaded rocket - ten smoke grenades, two Kalashnikov machine guns and two automatic pistols were discovered," Molins said, speaking about scene after the print shop assault. The bomb-disposal specialists even found a grenade on the body of one of the terrorists, which had been placed as a trap," Molins added.

    He said Coulibaly had attacked police forces with a Kalashnikov assault rifle and a "Skorpion" military pistol. After he was shot, police found two Russian-made Tokarev pistols, two machine guns, a bullet-proof vest and ammunition in the kosher supermarket.
    Link:http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Kouach...y-traps-387273
    davidbfpo

  16. #96
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    Default Joining the dots: who is responsible?

    Predictably there are comments whether the "dots were joined up", was it an intelligence failure or a political decision on the strategy.

    Shashank Joshi (RUSI) concludes:
    The new challenge isn't the prioritisation of threats, but the growing mismatch between the number of potential threats and limited resources
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30760656

    Professor John Schindler has a more caustic comment and points his finger at the politicians:
    The real problem is that French politicians, as in all Western countries, have absolutely no idea what to do with the burgeoning numbers of aspiring jihadist killers in their midst.
    Link:http://20committee.com/2015/01/10/th...lure-in-paris/
    davidbfpo

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    Nicely done video showing the movements of Buk 3x2, linked to the downing of #MH17, in Russia
    http://youtu.be/OMUmoMS2h-c

    Russian Orthodox jihadists and Islamic jihadists share much in common. #MH17

    Hazballah's Nasrallah says takfiris are more offensive than #CharlieHebdo cartoons.
    http://rt.com/news/221343-hezbollah-...arlie-offends/
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 01-10-2015 at 05:55 PM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Rouhani condemns terrorism via twitter - a medium blocked in Iran - while actively funding Shi'ite terrorist group.

    *Irony meter explodes*
    Worth remembering that Iran orchestrated the 1986-7 wave of bombings in France to pressure Paris to lessen its arming of Saddam's Iraq.

  19. #99
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    Well worth the reading of this short article.

    http://news.yahoo.com/violence-fuels...155204524.html

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    Putin doesn't really need nukes, has so may idiots to play with. Now FSB is planting the idea that Israel did it. #charliehebdo

    Lavrov will be at Paris Sunday defending "free speech" - Not in Moscow where 2 activists were arrested Yesterday with signes #jesuischarlie

    Chechen Leader Threatens Radio Echo of Moscow after Poll Shows Support for #CharlieHebdo

    http://thebea.st/1xQY2UC
    pic.twitter.com/iyIpcN5sGY

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