Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

[Rifleman]

What does this photo prove? Maybe nothing at all.....but I still liked it.

[Adam L]

Men need women, even though we're often reluctant to admit it. Even though we don't like it when they nag and complain, sometimes they point out things that make a lot of sense. They focus on the practical matters of life, and whether we want to hear it or not, they'll tell us that drinking a six-pack a day, eating a poor diet, and never cleaning up the house put a guy on the fast line downhill. God bless 'em, we need 'em. In addition to that they have some fascinating attributes.

Hey, men need women for many reasons but I object to your stereotyping men as impractical, dirty and unhealthy is improper.

What does this photo prove? Maybe nothing at all.....but I still liked it.

I like it too!

Mike: After reading all of that, I believe you to be a very lucky man.

Adam L

[Tukhachevskii]

What does this photo prove? Maybe nothing at all.....but I still liked it.

I second the motion (and you beat me to posting it too). On a more serious note I have read somewhere of a woman (I think she was asingned to an MP or Truck coy) who, along with only one man, managed to assault and clear an insurgent trench during an abmush in Iraq (I'll try and find the reference). As far as I'm concerned there should be ONE physicall standard for all combat arms. If a woman passes it then no problem (I've met women who are physically more capable than men, me included, although that was in the Balkans!). All the other shenanigans that may occur when men and women mix, a volatile mix I know, should be manageable under military rules. If they can't behave well, that goes for men and women, then they're out. Throwing the weight issue at them isn't fair to a lot of men either as commentators have already mentioned. The issue of mixed units is a different matter altogether and is as much a discipline issue as it is psychological.

[Tom Odom]

I second the motion (and you beat me to posting it too). On a more serious note I have read somewhere of a woman (I think she was asingned to an MP or Truck coy) who, along with only one man, managed to assault and clear an insurgent trench during an abmush in Iraq (I'll try and find the reference). As far as I'm concerned there should be ONE physicall standard for all combat arms. If a woman passes it then no problem (I've met women who are physically more capable than men, me included, although that was in the Balkans!). All the other shenanigans that may occur when men and women mix, a volatile mix I know, should be manageable under military rules. If they can't behave well, that goes for men and women, then they're out. Throwing the weight issue at them isn't fair to a lot of men either as commentators have already mentioned. The issue of mixed units is a different matter altogether and is as much a discipline issue as it is psychological.

That story is on the CSI Press web page as part of In Contact. the Chapter is Palm Sunday Ambush 20 March 2005.

[Tukhachevskii]

That story is on the CSI Press web page as part of In Contact. the Chapter is Palm Sunday Ambush 20 March 2005.

Sir, thank you. That's the one I was looking for.

[jtan163]

I have a problem with women in combat units because of what I see as uncontrollable, unenforceable problems with discipline and the biological urge to reproduce and to protect your spouse/partner/parent of your child, especially when you think you (or your partner) might not live until next Tuesday.

But given that it is likely gonna happen, I'd like to know if the nations/services that do this are going to do it with an equal rights agenda, or a women have more choices that men (affirmative action) agenda?

The sorts of questions I'd like answers to are:

Will women be compelled to serve in combat units against their will, like men are?

Will men be given the options to decline postings to combat units if women are not compelled to serve combat units?

Assuming women are NOT compelled to serve in arms corps, will those who volunteer to do so be allowed to un-volunteer if they find it doest not suit them.

Will there be affirmative action programs? E.g. increased posting of women to combat units until their representation there is equal to men's representation and vica versa (e.g. if 15% of men in the services are in risky, dirty, uncomfortable, combat units, will there be an increase in female postings until 15% of women in the services are in risky, dirty, uncomfortable combat units)?

In countries where abortion is legal, will women who get pregnant after they are posted to combat units be liable to enforced abortion?
If I recall correctly the Defense Force Discipline Act (the Aust equivalent to the UCMJ) makes it an offense for you to render yourself unfit for service, and an offense to refuse treatment and an offence to not comply with medical orders (like any other legal order - you don't get a say just because it's your body - you signed that away when you enlist).

Will women be required to register for selective service in the US and register for conscription in countries that have it (or introduce it in the future)?

Until men are given the same rights as women (e.g. the right of refusal of combat jobs) then there will not be equality between men and women. Instead there will be a group who has privileges that other people don't have.

Whilst its all very well to talk about equality and human rights of women, I think we ALSO need to think about the human rights and equality of men as well, and that with rights (for one gender) come responsibilities (for that gender).

These are I suspect areas that have probably been considered and quietly ignored at the legislature, executive and senior military leadership levels as they are too hard to deal with in the current political (-ly correct) climate.

If the services and legislatures don't think about this when they introduce these measures, then the courts will inevitably have to and I don't have confidence that the courts will settle such questions in a way that will satisfy any of the parties and in particular may cost the services and the nations a whole lot more than they gain by allowing women to server in combat roles.

Of course the governments who introduce such measures will invariably be well served by their decisions, but they only have to live with their decisions for one election at a time.