Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

[Norfolk]

I became a volunteer firefighter in 1977, the county involved had just hired the first professional firefighter in the US the year before. I can tell you with absolute certainty that this kind of behaviour does indeed "poison" the atmosphere and is entirely the wrong way to go about it.



In what way? Did they collapse physically?

Maggie

So true on the first point Maggie; there may be a place for political "influence" when it comes to various issues within the military, including gender ones. But is has to be limited and the civilians have to let the military work it out themselves, otherwise everyone loses, as well as any opportunities or benefits that may have arisen out of a measured, properly though-out and executed introduction of women to men in the infantry.

While there are a tiny proportion of women in Canadian infantry battalions, and the formal issue of gender integration is settled, I think the damage is done there, and many of the men, in their heart of hearts, will never really accept the women (even if on the surface it appears that they do). This leads to an unseen split within units between those men who are confortable with the women, and those who are not (and all the worse when the latter are discrete about it). I'm sure that I don't need to tell you about this. And I blame both the civilans masters and the military leadership for this. It didn't have to be this way. And I have to admit because of that experience I can't really bring myself to accept women in the infantry without real reservations.

As to the women going "squirrely", what I observed was that the women became disorientated, often dizzy, and simply couldn't keep up on the march. This "squirrely" condition invariably occurred within 3 days. I have never been able to identify an efficient cause for this; like I said in a previous post, for a while I thought that they were just slackers, but the last one to always join them was no slacker.

She was a good gal, and a lot of the lads felt comfortable with her because she was focused on the job at hand and did it well; the incident I witnessed where an NCO (who I took did not accept the women) gave her a hard time occurred during a run. She kept falling out of formation and the guys would try to carry her kit for her so she could stay with us (she was well liked), but the NCO wouldn't let us and just watched her as she fell out and we had to leave her behind (a truck was following some distance behind us and it picked her up).

Anyways, back to the matter at hand, I don't know what the reason for the "squirreliness" was, but the women were clearly somewhat out of it and had been unable to keep up with the men in the field, and subsequently sent back to MIR. Disorientation and dizziness were the main things that I noticed. Touch of hypothermia maybe?

[goesh]

The closer you are to death, the tighter the bonds get amongst the living and with raging young male hormones at play it simply is not a good mix to have a few women in with grunts in a combat zone, even the rare few that can handle the fatigue/heavy humping requirements and there are bathroom issues in the bush as well that would need to be addressed. This impacts unit cohesion and mission focus and said needs trump PC/politics.

[Norfolk]

The closer you are to death, the tighter the bonds get amongst the living and with raging young male hormones at play it simply is not a good mix to have a few women in with grunts in a combat zone, even the rare few that can handle the fatigue/heavy humping requirements and there are bathroom issues in the bush as well that would need to be addressed. This impacts unit cohesion and mission focus and said needs trump PC/politics.

That's something that just can't be ignored, or avoided without serious consequences. Good point, and kind of the elephant in the room.

[Jedburgh]

SSI, 24 Jan 08: Women in Combat Compendium

This compendium resulted from a request by Colonel Michele Putko for sponsorship of a “Women in Combat Study” as a multistudent elective alternative. Dr. Douglas Johnson agreed to sponsor the project on the condition that the perspectives of male officers who had commanded units with women in them be specifically included, as their views might provide a different evaluation of performance. As the editing of the original papers extended into the following student year, Colonel Mark Lindon’s paper filled an obvious gap, that of documenting the progressive change in public opinion. It has, therefore, been included.

The topic of Women in Combat has been one of great emotion, but uncertain factual content until recently. The rules created to deal with the fact that women want to serve in the armed forces have ranged from silly to serious, but the factual bases have changed and the plea of all the contributors is to review the entire issue with objectivity and attention to the facts as they exist. These facts are: Women comprise approximately 15 percent of the U.S. Army today; as of this writing (September 2007), 70 Army women (including three Department of the Army Civilian women) have been killed and a significantly larger number wounded; [icasualties.org/oif/Female.aspx] the American public is vaguely aware of this state of affairs and has raised no outcry. The nature of the current battlefield makes it impossible to apply strictly the existing rules for excluding women from combat without serious reduction in combat capabilities, degrading the professional development and thus status of women, and producing a potentially serious reduction in overall readiness. The sections that follow are edited extracts of U.S. Army War College (USAWC) Class of 2006 (except as noted) Personal Experience Monographs, Strategy Research Papers, or Directed Study: Writing Option papers. These papers are available in full through the USAWC Library Reference or Interlibrary Loan Section. The editors included major portions of several papers in order to emphasize the context within which these observations were made. The reader should take away two major points--the nature of combat for the U.S. Army has changed, and the existing rules governing the employment of women do not fit this new situation; and there is not the slightest doubt that women can perform their assigned duties in the combat zone, including engaging in combat actions essential to their personal and unit’s self-defense, with skill and valor equal to their male comrades. From the Survey, the reader should note continuing ambivalence about assignment to direct combat units, but strong support for revising the existing employment rules. No attempt has been made to examine Post-Traumatic Stress in women combat veterans, pregnancy rates, or any of the host of other gender-related issues. These officers asked simply, “Did the women do their jobs?”.....

[Jedburgh]

AP, 10 Mar 08: Woman Earns Silver Star in Afghanistan

A 19-year-old Army medic from Texas is set to become the first woman in Afghanistan -- and only the second female Soldier since World War II -- to receive the Silver Star, the nation's third-highest medal for valor.

Army Spc. Monica Lin Brown saved the lives of fellow Soldiers after a roadside bomb tore through a convoy of Humvees in the eastern Paktia province in April 2007, the military said.

After the explosion, which wounded five Soldiers in her unit, Brown ran through enemy gunfire and used her body to shield wounded comrades as mortars fell less than 100 yards away....

[reed11b]

The Female MP's in the MP company attached to my infantry company in Iraq did an excellent job under fire, returning fire, and living inside the wire. Camp Kalsu was nothing but a bombed radar station when we arrived with few generators and no plumbing. The females did not develop "feminine or Hygene" problems and remained fit to serve for the entire year, there were zero accounts of sexual assault or harrassmnt, and they performed very efectivly under fire. They earned my respect.
I am a counselor at the VA and talking with other GWOT combat vets, the women in forward deployed units that spent more time outside the wire had far fewer sexual harrasment or discipline problems then women in FOB units and the worse rates by far seemed to have come from Doha and Arifjan in Kuwait. Unfortunetly I have no studies or numbers to back this up, so take it for what it is worth
Reed

[120mm]

I've found, in my career, that the majority of female "duds" are present primarily because they've been catered to because of their gender.

Good female soldiers are good soldiers. Bad female soldiers tend to get a pass from superiors, because the superior is afraid to discipline the female soldier, and have the wrath of God visited upon him/her-self via the EO chain. As to whether females infantrymen can hack it, physically, I think it would take a special female soldier to do the job. As far as unit dynamics are concerned, female soldiers bring a unique challenge, but it isn't all bad. Female soldiers and leaders tend to have a unique view on things that can be good for a unit.

Just like with any soldier, it's a matter of leadership.