Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

[JMA]

At least in Small Wars and COIN, most Infantry units would benefit from an strong feminine influence.

How so?

[Pete]

Look, women are women and men are men, but that doesn't mean women don't have important contributions to make to the U.S. armed forces. When I was toward the end of my Army career in 7th Infantry Division at Fort Ord in '82-'84 I dated a woman who was a captain in Ordnance with a specialty in vehicle maintenance. When we met I was a Battalion Motor Officer and she was the staff officer for Division Support Command responsible for monitoring readiness rates of equipment. She and I became intimate and we had a lot of fun together.

Eventually we stopped seeing each other when the spark went out and our relationship became predictable and boring. She began dating a Major of Ordnance.

When her new boyfriend was away on temporary duty she phoned me with a problem -- her car had a flat tire, could I come over and fix it? Well I did, but I thought it was kind of strange, seeing as how she had been the Distinguished Honor Graduate of her U.S. Army Ordnance Officer Advanced Course, Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, vehicle maintenance specialty, a couple of years earlier.

This brings me back to my first sentence, men are men ane women are women. Mary was a very competent officer, she had a successful company command, and the last time I saw her in '87 she was a Major and Secretary of the General Staff of Army Materiel Command, Alexandria, Virginia.

[jmm99]

Hi Pete,

This is my flat tire story - from 35+ years ago. My wife and I are in Houghton (city across the bridge) for Sunday breakfast; and got into a discussion re: equal rights and responsibilities for women. My wife has always taken the position that women should know how to taike care of their own vehicles - to the discomfort of mechanics who have the mindset of what 120mm calls "he-man woman haters".

The conversation then turned to flat tires - and God is good to thems that's good to Him. For behold, my new Found On Road Dead F-100 had a flat (front driver's side) - which I could see but she couldn't from where she sat. So, I set her up; and she responded that if there was a flat tire on the her car or on the truck, she would change it and with no help from you, Mister.

So, we finished breakfast and when outside facing the truck, I said, OMG, there's a flat front tire on the truck. Looks like you can prove your point. Of course, since you're wearing a white pants suit and a truck is bigger than a car, I'll volunteer to change the tire if you're not able and willing. Which of course totally pi$$es her off and she changes the tire (after finding out that the Ford jack, etc., ain't worth squat; but that I do have a good hydraulic jack and tire wrenches behind the seat) - and her white suit was no longer white. So, women are different re: flat tires.

Of course, she would have some other points re: women vice men. She happens to be about 5'1"", 105#, but can lift and carry 80-100# cement and sand bags. If the two of us were at a theoretical shoot off at 100m with rifles, I'm a little more accurate; but if we both fired at the same time, it would end in a draw - a bad draw. On the other hand, she says it wouldn't be fair for me to hit her hand to hand because I'm bigger and stronger than she is - which is also true.

The point from my little dataset of 1 is that women have different capabiilities depending on the situation, and their own mental and physical strengths and weaknesses. My wife always shot in men's competitions (not many lady shooters up here back then - more now). She usually beat most of them - but always came in behind me - which really ticked her off.

I do buy JMA's requirement that all in a unit have to meet a standard for the missions that unit is "likely" (that's a loaded word) to undertake; but I don't buy his comment (may be ironic or sarcastic) that we should suck up with the PC re: women and just do the best that can be done under that circumstances.

Nice to see 120mm back into the fray. We need somebody who "looks hot in heels and a little cocktail dress."

Regards to all - a bit off topic for me, but I had to reply to the flat tire story. Now, excuse me while I go off to slug my wife. Reality is that I have to fix one of her chairs.

Mike

[JMA]

I do buy JMA's requirement that all in a unit have to meet a standard for the missions that unit is "likely" (that's a loaded word) to undertake; but I don't buy his comment (may be ironic or sarcastic) that we should suck up with the PC re: women and just do the best that can be done under that circumstances.

OK on the first point, on the second my point was that most armies will just have to get on with integrating females (for better of for worse) for the sake of imposed PC. I don't agree with the PC approach but suggest everyone will just have to learn to live with it.