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Thread: Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

  1. #201
    Council Member gute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    Even if the standards were to be the same, I still wouldn't like it. Yet, knowing the army, they will not be the same. Men will die when they are too heavy in kit to be drug to cover by a female in their fire team, or she herself will get shot. How is the average female going to affect the load plan for a 3 day operation? Can she, on average, bear the 40kg load with enough juice in the tank to sprint to cover or bound? Is the average female the one you want in front of you in a stack?

    I dont see the fascination civilian committees have with all manner of changes to the military that have nothing to do with increasing our lethality on the battle field. If the changes wont make you more lethal/effective, why even consider it?
    yep, I agree with you. There will be different standards - this is only the beginning. I want to puke.

  2. #202
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    Default Combat Women and Congress’s Wimps

    Combat Women and Congress’s Wimps

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  3. #203
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    Default Know Your Enemy: Lessons for the U.S. Military from Women in Armed Rebel Groups

    Know Your Enemy: Lessons for the U.S. Military from Women in Armed Rebel Groups

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  4. #204
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    Default Military Culture Still Refuses to Include Women

    Military Culture Still Refuses to Include Women

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  5. #205
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    Default Pentagon Mulling Separate Combat Training for Men, Women

    Pentagon Mulling Separate Combat Training for Men, Women

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  6. #206
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    Default Double Standard: Pentagon Hints at Changes to Allow More Women in Ground Combat

    Double Standard: Pentagon Hints at Changes to Allow More Women in Ground Combat

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  7. #207
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    Default Women and the Audie Murphy Model

    Women and the Audie Murphy Model

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  8. #208
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Captain Collette: The life of a woman on the front line

    A BBC News report:
    Capt Ashley Collette was the only woman in her platoon of soldiers on the Afghan front line. In the Canadian armed forces, unusually, every job is open to women - and both sexes live together and fight together.

    (At the end citing the Captain) In my experience there's no reason why a band of brothers cannot be a band of brothers and sisters.
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24622762
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  9. #209
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    knowing the army, they will not be the same. Men will die when they are too heavy in kit to be drug to cover by a female in their fire team, or she herself will get shot.

  10. #210
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    A short interview with Canadian General John de Chastelain, who retired in 1995: Reflections on the introduction of women into combat roles in the Canadian military:http://strifeblog.org/2014/06/25/gen...dian-military/
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  11. #211
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    Default Moderator at work

    Six threads where the theme was Women in Military Service and Combat, not just the American experience and viewpoint have been merged here.
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  12. #212
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    Study Finds Women Don't Belong in Combat

    New book shows women in combat suffer much more serious non-combat injuries, alleges IDF cover-up...

    ...The book describes ludicrous measures by which women's lesser suitabilty for combat roles is masked. These include lowering the bar of requirements for women wishing to enter combat units, placing benches next to walls that trainees jump over (only for the women to use), running laps in circles (instead of straight-line runs from point A to point B) to make it less obvious that the women are lagging behind the men, and more.
    and predictably:

    The IDF told Maariv/NRG that Sagi's claims are “completely baseless” and that women's integration into combat units has been a success. “Female combat soldiers are dealt with in a supervised manner, which takes into account their medical, physiological and social needs,” the army said.

  13. #213
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    As if by magic the UK MoD has announced a review of women in combat:
    The aim of the review will be to assess the current exclusion of women from ground closecombat roles, to identify the benefits and risks of changing this policy and to make recommendations. The review is to be open and evidence based, building on theconsiderable work undertaken in support ofthe 2002 and 2010 reviews. The assessmentof benefits is to include the impact of a change in policy on the recruitment of women into the wider Armed Forces. It is to cover all three Services, with the Army acting as the lead Service working in close cooperation with the Navy, the Air Force and the Chief of Defence Personnel. It is to be based on the premise that all roles should be open to women unless this would undermine combat effectiveness. Armed Forces’ effectiveness is not, however, to be prejudiced by lowering operationally necessary standards.
    Link:https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...oles-clean.pdf
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  14. #214
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    Forcing women into combat roles despite all is going to happen. There is no stopping it short of disastrous results when a big fight comes. Which is a certainty on both counts in my view.

    From strictly an observer's standpoint, how it all plays out will be extremely interesting. A social experiment conducted on such a large scale has never really been done before. I don't count the WWII Red Army because they haven't fully opened their archives so we don't actually know what happened.

    It is just so damn sad that all those people will have to die and suffer who wouldn't have had to die and suffer otherwise.

    I hope there are some secret studies being done by staff officers somewhere that deal with having to reverse all this in the middle of a big fight.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl
    I don't count the WWII Red Army because they haven't fully opened their archives so we don't actually know what happened.
    In other words: "I don't believe women should be in combat and I'm going to ignore historical examples that do not prove this point."

    There is plenty of literature about the experience of Soviet women in combat. You claim that "I hope there are some secret studies being done by staff officers somewhere that deal with having to reverse all this in the middle of a big fight."

    The Soviets, who experienced the "[biggest] fight" in history, concluded the opposite and realized that the exigencies of conflict necessitated the destruction of social norms that prevented women from performing combat roles as varied as attack aviation, armored warfare, snipers, and partisans. The norms that regulate women to the sidelines are luxuries enjoyed in a patriarchial society at peace.
    Last edited by AmericanPride; 07-07-2014 at 03:44 PM.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  16. #216
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    Default A report from Norway

    An Australian TV report from Finnmark, Norway's northern province and the border with Russia. It starts with:
    When the young women of the Norwegian Border Guard turn in after a long day patrolling along a stretch of their nation's northern border with Russia, chances are there will be men in the room.

    They're the fellow soldiers they've been working with, training with and sometimes ordering around in the field. Despite the seamless sleeping arrangements, the conflicting habits of males and females, it all seems to work. Harassment and sexual assault, already comparatively low in Norway's armed forces, is on the wane.
    Link, includes a twenty-eight minute TV documentary (with some nice scenery):http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2014/s4061340.htm

    Note Norway has universal male conscription, women are all volunteers; next year conscription will be extended to women. The Navy has a different policy on sharing accomodation; whilst the first SF platoon has been created.
    davidbfpo

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    The three female officers who completed the Marine Infantry Officer Course's indoc are dropped after hikes:

    http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/...-to-leave.-Why

    Anyone care to predict how this is going to end in 2016?

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite_State View Post
    The three female officers who completed the Marine Infantry Officer Course's indoc are dropped after hikes:

    http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/...-to-leave.-Why

    Anyone care to predict how this is going to end in 2016?
    A guy I know at Quantico (retired colonel who's very friendly with a lot of people who wear stars) told me last month that female integration WILL be successful. Take that for what it's worth... it lines up pretty well with what I've heard other generals say.

  19. #219
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    Default New Leadership Challenge?

    Women all over the world serve in direct combat roles. Review those Pesh Merga pictures or the female divisions ransacking Berlin. The problem we have is that some of our leadership want female warriors to be plug-in replacements for males. The error here is the preconception that all male warriors are plug-in replacements for each other. They are not.

    Any squad or platoon level leader knows that each member of their command has different strengths and weaknesses. Some can carry heavier packs longer distances, some can run faster or farther, some are better marksmen, some are better or more willing with a knife, some are just better warriors.

    Leadership skill includes the ability consider these differences when establishing expectations and making task assignments. There is nothing new needed as women agree to risk all to serve.

  20. #220
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    Default We can train women to kill, but men won't like it

    In June 2014 BBC Radio 4 broadcast a half hour documentary looking at the Canadian experience. Today the reporter has an article, with the sub-title, in expectation that UK policy is about to change:
    As the UK decides whether to allow female soldiers to fight on the front line, Emma Barnett explains what's really driving the fear at the heart of the armed forces about women bearing arms
    I think her argument is best summed up here:
    Women, as they have proved in all other specialisms in our Armed Forces, do not degrade operational capability – they maintain it, alongside their male colleagues.
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...t-like-it.html

    The BBC podcast is available on:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03c3dx1
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-25-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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