AIDS as a Security Threat

[Steve Blair]

I'd actually hazard a guess that the majority of it goes back to internal Church politics. Funny that the Pope can come out so strongly against something like this yet remain relatively silent about the abuse scandals that did so much damage to the Church's reputation in the US.

[marct]

I'd actually hazard a guess that the majority of it goes back to internal Church politics. Funny that the Pope can come out so strongly against something like this yet remain relatively silent about the abuse scandals that did so much damage to the Church's reputation in the US.

Well, that's "accepted" ! Seriously, though, the condom / birth control issue is a key fracture line between the liberal wing (mainly US and parts of Western Europe) and the conservative wing. They've been using a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on it for quite a while now to avoid an open split with the more extreme conservatives.

[Steve Blair]

Well, that's "accepted" ! Seriously, though, the condom / birth control issue is a key fracture line between the liberal wing (mainly US and parts of Western Europe) and the conservative wing. They've been using a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on it for quite a while now to avoid an open split with the more extreme conservatives.

Yeah, I know. I'm sure they want to avoid some of the issues that have popped up in the past few years within the Anglican church. Still...at times I think the Church and universities have more in common than they'd care to admit. It's mostly about politics and power structures, and neither group can seem to understand how those on the outside hear what they're saying or see what they're doing.

[marct]

Yeah, I know. I'm sure they want to avoid some of the issues that have popped up in the past few years within the Anglican church.

Not quite sure which "issues" you're referring to: ordination of women? ordination of open homosexuals? complete lack of basic Christian theology and inclusion of Buddhist meditation in some churches?

Still...at times I think the Church and universities have more in common than they'd care to admit. It's mostly about politics and power structures, and neither group can seem to understand how those on the outside hear what they're saying or see what they're doing.

Actually, that's really not surprising. The Western academic structures of universities come out of Church sponsored / supported education systems. There's a good, solid, historical / cultural reason why i call some of my colleagues "theologians" .

[Schmedlap]

I suspect that, in addition to opposing condoms, the Catholic Church endorses abstinence outside of marriage and monogamous relations within marriage. I also may be wrong here, but I don't think they have any objection to HIV medication/treatment, education about how it is spread, compassion towards the infected, etc, etc.

If this were just a policy of "keep screwing everything in sight and don't use protection" then that would be one thing. Their no-condom stance is one part of a significant lifestyle change that they advocate. I don't think there is any argument about how effective that lifestyle change would be IF achieved. But, that "IF" on the other hand...

[Tom Odom]

I suspect that, in addition to opposing condoms, the Catholic Church endorses abstinence outside of marriage and monogamous relations within marriage. I also may be wrong here, but I don't think they have any objection to HIV medication/treatment, education about how it is spread, compassion towards the infected, etc, etc.

If this were just a policy of "keep screwing everything in sight and don't use protection" then that would be one thing. Their no-condom stance is one part of a significant lifestyle change that they advocate. I don't think there is any argument about how effective that lifestyle change would be IF achieved. But, that "IF" on the other hand...

Somewhat true but keep in mind that policies and lifestyle programs change overtime under the influence of many factors , many of which have nothing to do with health.

In a way the policy is a defacto "keep screwing everything in sight and don't use protection" because it does not address African cultural values regarding sex. Also keep in mind that it was at one time Church policy to allow priests to take local wives as an offset for the burden of service in Africa.

As for education about how HIV is spread the policy certainly does liit education to how to prevent HIV's spread. In that regard, we the US are in the same boat as we follow a political policy that emphasizes disease but is forbidden to advocate birth control. USAID can hand out condoms but only as a disease control measure.

Tom

[marct]

Good points, Tom. As an add-on comment, there is also a fairly serious problem emerging about what defines "sex" (that problem is also rampant in the US teen cultures). When you also add in the fact that the infection vectors operate outside of sexual transmission as well, you have a real problem.

[Schmedlap]

In a way the policy is a defacto "keep screwing everything in sight and don't use protection" because it does not address African cultural values regarding sex.

I think it's the exact opposite. This is not a single policy advocated separately from the lifestyle changes advocated and expected to function well within the current cultures in Africa. It is part of a larger call to change the culture. But I suspect we're in agreement regarding the likelihood of that occurring.

In that regard, we the US are in the same boat as we follow a political policy that emphasizes disease but is forbidden to advocate birth control. USAID can hand out condoms but only as a disease control measure.

I wonder if that is related to calls from the Catholic Church or if it is simply a division of efforts. For example, PEPFAR has a focus on treatment of pregnant mothers to prevent transmission of HIV to their children, efforts to safeguard the blood supply, etc. It seems like a medical approach. The USAID disease prevention seems more akin to a field sanitation or social work type of effort that can occur with significantly less (or different) specialized skills.

The taboo on advocating birth control might also be part of an image adjustment. Condoms as a birth control measure can fairly easily be construed as, "America doesn't want black people to have kids." It sounds dumb, but some people would believe it. Some people (in this country!) believe that we created HIV to kill black people. When I was an undergrad in 2002, taking an upper-level course in immunology, a student actually gave a presentation that assumed we were using HIV and various birth control drugs as weapons to kill or sterilize black people. Thankfully the professor had some words to say in response - the rest of us were speechless.