Military Totemism and its Impact on Small Wars

[Tom Odom]

Don't get me started on the AF uniforms!

Would that be the McPeak airline pilot uniform?

Tom

[Steve Blair]

That or the "new" Mosley specials...one with the Old Army high collar in a fetching blue (the Billy Mitchell 'heritage' model) or the one that looks like something Leisure Suit Larry got rid of in 1977 (the Hap Arnold 'heritage' model with stunning wide lapels just like a leisure suit).

[Bill Moore]

You guys are killing me on this thread. I actually got a couple of good belly laughs reading through some of this material. Perhaps we should start a "on the lighter side" category where we can let our hair down a little and share a few more laughs?

Bill

[120mm]

120mm,

You're going to get the A/S crowd over at LF so mad at you...Let me know what reinforcing fires I could provide, as I love the idea!

Remember, jcustis, Sacred Cows make the Best Burgers. I just about got fed my own guts over comments regarding the Airborne merit badge mafia.

And, as you surmised, Lightfighter is the inspiration for this "possible paper."

The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.

Marc - The point about historic uniformity you brought up is one of the things that makes me less than comfortable. My academics are not as strong as I'd like just yet; my idea is to float just enough of a summary to get me accepted, and then dig like hell to back it up with actual "knowledge" and "analysis".

And I was focusing primarily on "combat fashion", so it is an excellent point you bring up about "dress" versus "combat". I mean, when did lapels quit being a way to regulate for temperature and start being a style?

The problem I'm having now, is deciding whether to write an omnibus paper very shallowly, or drilling deep on one aspect.

[Rob Thornton]

120mm
You might consider how when a "trend" gets pushed down form an elite, it is sometimes accepted as being useful by the greater community at large, even at the extent of sacrificing mobilty, or comfort. I know we got issued a bunch of stuff in our RFI that is now collecting dust. I've found that simple is better, especially when your pushing 40 and occassionally have to replicate what you did in your 20s. It'd also be useful to know how much both the soldier and the insitution spends on "accessorizing"

[marct]

Hi 120mm,

Marc - The point about historic uniformity you brought up is one of the things that makes me less than comfortable. My academics are not as strong as I'd like just yet; my idea is to float just enough of a summary to get me accepted, and then dig like hell to back it up with actual "knowledge" and "analysis".

That's a tactic that many of us use, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's also why many of us will send out preliminary drafts of our papers to friends and colleagues - so that they can point out the holes in the arguments . I've found that, most of the time, I get some really great feedback from my own network (including some of my undergrad students).

I realy think that your summary is good - I'd go for it

And I was focusing primarily on "combat fashion", so it is an excellent point you bring up about "dress" versus "combat". I mean, when did lapels quit being a way to regulate for temperature and start being a style?

The problem I'm having now, is deciding whether to write an omnibus paper very shallowly, or drilling deep on one aspect.

Personally, if I were you, I would drill down to about middlin' level but place that is it's broader context.

The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.

Okay, being an Anthropologist, I'd wonder if you asked them why they did it? This type of observation is "data", and their responses are another type of data. If you write about "what is" rather than about "theory says..." you will, to my mind, end up doing a much better conference paper. Any theory necessary can be alluded to in the presentation and written in later in the publication.

Marc

[marct]

Hi Rob,

You might consider how when a "trend" getspushed down form an elite, it is sometimes accepted as being useful by the greater community at large, even at the extent of sacrificing mobilty, or comfort. I know we got issued a bunch of stuff in our RFI that is now collecting dust. I've found that simple is better, especially when your pushing 40 and occassionally have to replicate what you did in your 20s. It'd also be useful to know how much both the soldier and the insitution spends on "accessorizing"

Really good points! There was some pretty good work done on this in a consumer / civilian context back in the 1960's in Sociology if I remember correctly. So, a new question that 120mm could pose at the end of his paper is "When does an accessory become a necessity?"

Richard Dawkins had an article in the late 1980's or 1990's (it's early in the morning and my mind isn't awake yet) where he talks about people taking on additional burdens to show how strong they are - the "peacock effect". I think that this may be playing out in some of he equipment issues that you are mentioning.

Marc

[Uboat509]

The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.

I have not seen this. I have seen a lot of guys get rid of kit that was issued to them because whoever procured it, did so without actually talking to an operator. There is a certain amount of institutional arrogance in SF but I have never seen anyone discard good kit over something like that.

SFC W

[slapout9]

1-120mm, you might also consider the fact that military fashion has an impact on the civilian world, with stores like "Banana Republic" and "The Urban Gorilla" that take military fashion and alter it slightly to sell to the general public.

2-When you say combat fashion does that include web gear? How web gear has changed both for the good and the bad is a hobby of mine. I have a lot of material on it if you ever think you need it.

3-I don't have any college degrees but I have been called a 3rd degree Red neck. And Slapout,Alabama is the cultural center of the Universe, according to Bubba anyway.

[Rob Thornton]

Saw this along with some other "Bob" humor.

[SWJED]

Saw this along with some other "Bob" humor.

Thanks for the belly laugh

[120mm]

This continues to be a great topic - unfortunately, I am seriously wavering on whether to go through with the paper, or not.

I am in arrears in my ILE course, and need to focus on it. I also need to do some fundamental "Catch up for the 10 years I failed to study" and "decide what the hell I'm going to do with my life" stuff.

I have enough to float a proposal. I'll decide for sure later this week if I'm going to do it or not.

Thanks for all the help and ideas. This may just need to be put off until next year.

[AdamG]

Tons of references, and I don't think there is a monograph, yet, that addresses it directly.

Of course, I think a paper on web gear could be effectively sold to the conference based on it's cultural v. practical basis. And the US SF angle is reflected in their webbing. Queer Eye for the Army Guy Anyone?

Needs earrings.

[120mm]

And a bitchin' pair of high heels.

[Steve Blair]

And a bitchin' pair of high heels.

But ONLY if they have speed-zips on 'em and come in that fetching unbuffed desert tan. Then we're talkin'...

[Rifleman]

Back to topic.

Totem - 1. a. An animal, plant or natural object serving as the emblem of a clan or family by virtue of an asserted ancestral relationship. b. A representation of this being. 2. A venerated symbol.

It seems the Marine Corps' technological totem would have to be "The Rifle."

The Army, being a large organization without a singular culture, doesn't have a service wide technological totem that I can think of. I doubt the Army wide wear of the black beret has changed that since my day. The beret wouldn't be a technological totem anyway.

In my unit our technological totem would have been the static line parachute. The regimental crest and the maroon beret wouldn't be technological totems.

Now I'd say my unit's technological totem is the pistol. The comparison isn't perfect, badges and handcuffs fit in somepace, but the pistol is technological and for most cops it probably tops the badge as a venerated symbol anyway.

[marct]

One of the things that always interested me about the British Regimental system, which Canada uses, is the existence of "Honourary" Colonels. With this in mind, CBC posted an interesting story:

That's Col. Rick to you: Mercer gets a military gig
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 | 5:25 PM ET
CBC News

In a post sometimes reserved for business executives or minor royalty, Rick Mercer may be the first professional comedian to serve as honorary colonel of a Canadian air force unit.

Mercer, who is younger than some of the aircraft in 423 Maritime Helicopter Squadron, says he is "probably an unconventional choice" for the unpaid ceremonial gig. "But I'm happy that it's the guys with the Sea Kings because I always root for the underdog," he told CBC News Online on Wednesday as word of his appointment spread. "And I've always felt perfectly safe riding in Sea Kings."

More...

Marc

[Steve Blair]

The US Army had this as well, although I suspect it was strongest with the cavalry regiments. Now...who knows what happened to it.

[marct]

Hi Steve,

The US Army had this as well, although I suspect it was strongest with the cavalry regiments. Now...who knows what happened to it.

Didn't the US version come from the militias via the state legislatures? If that's the case, then I expect it disappeared with them. I'm pretty sure that our version came out of the Napoleonic Wars' reorganization of regiments and the association with a military rank and social status; things like buying a commission in an inactive regiment or BTN. I know that my Great Grandfather had to do this to maintain his social standing.

Marc

[Steve Blair]

Not originally. The honorary colonel system came into use as a way to preserve unit heritage, and was really in vogue after World War I, if memory serves. It continued on with fits and starts through the last re-org, and I don't know where it stands now. Under the old system the honorary colonel had to have served as an active officer with the regiment in question.

What you're thinking of, Marc, was the system used to create officers for militia and volunteer units during the Civil War (it was used in other conflicts, but obviously saw its greatest use during the Civil War). Typically if a person put up the money to raise and equip a unit, he was given command of that unit and the rank to go with it. So if a guy funded the "Livingston Light Rifle Company," he'd get the rank of captain or major from the state legislature to go with his unit. Many of those units also elected officers and NCOs, with often comical results. It was a purchase system, in a way, but also a way to show political patronage and clout.

After a year or so of war, most units abandoned the election process, but you would still see regimental commanders appointed by politicians. If they were idiots, they were fired or (if the clout was too strong) shifted to an assignment where they would cause little damage.