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Thread: Interesting thought occured

  1. #1
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Default Interesting thought occured

    I was reading the following article and I thought about SWJ/C

    http://www.oculture.com/weblog/2006/...the_most_.html

    The Hottest Course on iTunes (and the Future of Digital Education)

    What's the most popular podcast in the Higher Education section of iTunes? Ahead of all the podcasts from Princeton, and all of those from Yale, and ahead of the Understanding Computers course from Harvard, and even the pyschology course from UC Berkeley, is an unexpected podcast called Twelve Byzantine Rulers: The History of the Byzantine Empire. The course, which focuses on the Greek-speaking Roman Empire of the Middle Ages, is taught by Lars Brownworth, who teaches high school at The Stony Brook School on Long Island, New York. And it gets rave reviews. "I'm disappointed because I don't think I'll ever find a podcast that I enjoy as much as this one." "This podcast has quickly become a hit with me and all of my friends, even those who don't like history so much." You get the gist.

    The success of this course makes us think that companies that sell digital lectures for a fee might not be long for this world. Take The Teaching Company for example. They're in the business of selling polished, lecture-based courses, which can often be very well done. And, yes, they offer too a course on the Byzantine Empire that retails in audio download form for $129. So what will the savvy consumer do? Download Brownworth's course for free? Or pay $129? This is not a knock on what The Teaching Company is doing. I like their product and can appreciate their need to sell products to recoup their costs. But you can't compete with free. With so many university courses now taping their courses and putting them on iTunes see (our full list of university podcasts), you have to wonder whether The Teaching Company is just another once viable business model that is being steadily commoditzed by the Internet.

    http://www.anders.com/lectures/lars_...antine_rulers/
    I'm currently building an ultra high tech collaborative distributed learning environment for my University. It's not "distance learning". We maintain the concepts of presence and interactivity of the classroom and the curriculum can be delivered anywhere there is a broad band connection and a student.

    How are current day military learning programs using technology? Imagine if once a week SWC had a podcast an hour long on topical events and issues. If you use technologies that have wide acceptance and adaptability adoption becomes less of an issue.

  2. #2
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I was reading the following article and I thought about SWJ/C
    ..............
    I'm currently building an ultra high tech collaborative distributed learning environment for my University. It's not "distance learning". We maintain the concepts of presence and interactivity of the classroom and the curriculum can be delivered anywhere there is a broad band connection and a student.

    How are current day military learning programs using technology? Imagine if once a week SWC had a podcast an hour long on topical events and issues. If you use technologies that have wide acceptance and adaptability adoption becomes less of an issue.
    I've been using some of the elearning collaborative technology for my courses as well - Moodle for the past couple of years. I've also been looking into podcasts, but I haven't done them yet because of content issues. Personally, I think an SWC podcast would be interesting. Of course, how much would be said and who would have access to it? Were you thinking of an iTunes release?

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Ironhorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    How are current day military learning programs using technology? Imagine if once a week SWC had a podcast an hour long on topical events and issues. If you use technologies that have wide acceptance and adaptability adoption becomes less of an issue.
    My take is that collaborative and distributed runs afoul of control. There is still a strong culture of the "approved" TTPs, lessons, etc., particularly in the TRADOC / TECOM type organizations that are most likely to have the focus, if not necessarily the budget and manpower, to take on such projects.

    Not to say that there aren't folks who see the potential and apply themselves to it, just that they're perhaps received more as revolutionaries than they should be, since there is institutional inertia and friction. Intent often goes, with best will in world -- have to ensure quality, hence quality control, how can you have quality control without control, control becomes blockage.

    Too bad, but that's the conventional wisdom.
    Last edited by Ironhorse; 12-18-2006 at 05:41 PM.

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    Council Member sgmgrumpy's Avatar
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    Default Collaborative distributed learning environment

    Proponent: U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command
    ARI Unit: Advanced Training Methods Research Unit


    Distributed Training Tools for Collaborative Environments
    http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/researc...ronments.shtml

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgmgrumpy View Post
    Proponent: U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command
    ARI Unit: Advanced Training Methods Research Unit


    Distributed Training Tools for Collaborative Environments
    http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/researc...ronments.shtml
    Thanks for the links sgmgrumpy!

    My take is that collaborative and distributed runs afoul of control. There is still a strong culture of the "approved" TTPs, lessons, etc., particularly in the TRADOC / TECOM type organizations that are most likely to have the focus, if not necessarily the budget and manpower, to take on such projects.
    Ironhorse, you also raise a really good point. One of the things that interested me about the entire idea is that very system of control. For some time now, I've been watching the grouwth of Net 2.0 (blogs, wiki's, etc) and I think that, in many ways, these are a really good model to use for training. I think Companycommander.com (I hope I have that right since I can't access it <wry grin>) is a good example of a Net 2.0 system for "training". Of course, the entire concept behind Net 2.0 is radically opposed to the concept of "approved control" or "authorized knowledge" (maybe Rob Thornton could comment on this).

    It strikes me that the very concept of a Net 2.0 "training" system (including podcasting) is almost antithetical to the more traditional control systems. Then again, this council doesn't exactly operate 100% inside those systems either...

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  6. #6
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default CompanyCommand.mil

    Marc,
    What I've always liked about CC.mil vs. some of the other BCKS is that it is a grass roots CoP. When Tony and Nate got together and put it together they did it over a beer talking about wouldn't it be cool to have a place where future and current company commanders could discuss leadership with peers and possibly also benefit from the experiences of prior company commanders. Think of it as experience transferral. There is content in things like AARs, interviews, TACSOPs, LFX/STX lanes, you name it, its own there- but there is also context - lots of free flow discussions and thoughts. Its self policing for the most part. All the folks who "work" on th site are pretty much volunteers who give back while still holding down their active duty day responsibilities. Side note - later they gifted the site to the Army (it was originally a .com) - there was some real concern that when it became a .mil members would see it as a sell out to the institution and would not be as prone to speak freely, challenge what they are told sort of feeling - it never happened. The other BCKS networks (exception is PlatoonLeader) don't feel the same, for the most part they were stood up by the Army, not by audience - so they feel different.
    While the Army gets a huge benefit in increasing access to all kinds of experience, CC.mil and other CoPs do not tak ethe place of real OES/NCOES type environments in my oppinion. They are a great supplement though. The reason - I think it is better if there is an opportunity where what you learned in your last job is internalized and apllied to what you are learning for your next job. Call it a gestation period where the light bulb comes on about some event that just did not make sense at the time. When this knowledge becomes tacit it can be applied toward solving problems - like an anagram that all of a sudden became clear.
    I'd also like to say thanks for the podcast link. Very cool. What would also be very cool is fnding specific podcasts for history/culture of a given AOR. An interactive one that let you jump around, or took you to another related topic ex. say you were interested in the etymological roots of a given word or name, then say you found out that word was linked to soemthing of cultural significance, - with each new discovery you needed some related peice of info to put it together. I've had to do something like that here for analysis - it took allot of time. You could extend that to geography, geology, economics, etc. It would be a great tool for leaders at all levels.
    Regards, Rob
    Last edited by SWJED; 12-18-2006 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Left out a few things

  7. #7
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Rob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    What I've always liked about CC.mil vs. some of the other BCKS is that it is a grass roots CoP. When Tony and Nate got together and put it together they did it over a beer talking about wouldn't it be cool to have a place where future and current company commanders could discuss leadership with peers and possibly also benefit from the experiences of prior company commanders. Think of it as experience transferral. There is content in things like AARs, interviews, TACSOPs, LFX/STX lanes, you name it, its own there- but there is also context - lots of free flow discussions and thoughts. Its self policing for the most part. All the folks who "work" on th site are pretty much volunteers who give back while still holding down their active duty day responsibilities. Side note - later they gifted the site to the Army (it was originally a .com) - there was some real concern that when it became a .mil members would see it as a sell out to the institution and would not be as prone to speak freely, challenge what they are told sort of feeling - it never happened. The other BCKS networks (exception is PlatoonLeader) don't feel the same, for the most part they were stood up by the Army, not by audience - so they feel different.
    Thanks <g>. I've heard bits and pieces about it, but that's always different from actually seeing it. From the sounds of it, cc.mil is definately Net 2.0. Have you thought about tossing up a wiki in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    While the Army gets a huge benefit in increasing access to all kinds of experience, CC.mil and other CoPs do not tak ethe place of real OES/NCOES type environments in my oppinion. They are a great supplement though. The reason - I think it is better if there is an opportunity where what you learned in your last job is internalized and apllied to what you are learning for your next job. Call it a gestation period where the light bulb comes on about some event that just did not make sense at the time. When this knowledge becomes tacit it can be applied toward solving problems - like an anagram that all of a sudden became clear.
    I like the analogy . It's weird in some ways. I've taken all sorts of courses in Anthropology, but I learned most of it in bars talking with other Anthropologists and having my experience of fieldword "interpreted" by the "shamans" (read senior Anthropologists). I find that even the best CoPs are a pale comparison to spending 10-12 hours drinking, eating and just plain talking. I think electronic CoPs are a good substitute for an "on the fly" interpretation, but the "learning" (I really hate that word!) only sinks in after you have done the work and can ground it. So, yes, I agree that CoPs don't replace more formal systems but, rather, enhance them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    I'd also like to say thinks for the podcast link. Very cool. What would also be very cool is fnding specific podcasts for history/culture of a given AOR. An interactive one that let you jump around, or took you to another related topic ex. say you were interested in the etymological roots of a given word or name, then say you found out that word was linked to soemthing of cultural significance, - with each new discovery you needed some related peice of info to put it together. I've had to do something like that here for analysis - it took allot of time. You could extend that to geography, geology, economics, etc. It would be a great tool for leaders at all levels.
    I agree, kudos to Selil. Then again, the Byzantine Empire has always been a favorite of mine

    Rob, your idea of linking in podcasts for particular cultural / historical material is really good. I hate to toss anything more to Bill and Dave, but maybe SWJ should start thinking about compiling links to good podcasts as well as articles <evil grin>.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member sgmgrumpy's Avatar
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    Default lectures, forums, and other events available online

    FPRI periodically makes recordings of lectures, forums, and other events available online in streaming formats and as file downloads.

    Audio and Video from FPRI Events

  9. #9
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    It strikes me that the very concept of a Net 2.0 "training" system (including podcasting) is almost antithetical to the more traditional control systems. Then again, this council doesn't exactly operate 100% inside those systems either...
    It seemed like if the University systems could do this and push learning and lessons type information the military had to be able to do it. I did a project two summers ago for DOD building curricula, but I don't know if that went anywhere.

    I was thinking that a round table of SWC types could discuss current issues for an hour over skype and that would be invaluable (and accessible) by anybody or a subscriber base via something like iTunes.

    There is so much that multimedia environments can support.

    I can definitely see some of the control issues. Also, I could see some possibility of political fall out for people involved.

  10. #10
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    From 1993 to 1996 my National Guard unit did training meetings over the Iowa FiberOptic Network. It worked extremely well, and allowed all the leadership to come together once a month without a 2+ hour drive.

    Fast Forward to today: The Army is screwing the pooch on distance/collaborative learning. They've bought several systems, such as Blackboard and Rosetta Stone, for soldiers to use, and then forbid the installation of any of the support software on an Army computer. I can't access either on my work machine, or even at the post library. It would be nice to do my ILE during lunch, or Rosetta Stone while waiting for something.

    I'm thinking that the Army is scared ####less that I might actually view a female breast online, or they are incapable of net security/building bandwidth.

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Selil,

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    It seemed like if the University systems could do this and push learning and lessons type information the military had to be able to do it. I did a project two summers ago for DOD building curricula, but I don't know if that went anywhere.
    I think it's more than technically possibily, it's also economically possible. It's when we get to the level of politics that it may meet the problem (more later).

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I was thinking that a round table of SWC types could discuss current issues for an hour over skype and that would be invaluable (and accessible) by anybody or a subscriber base via something like iTunes.
    Probably feasible, although there may be some difficulties for anyone currently serving. Were you thinking about a "This Week in COIN" type of discussion for the content, or a more "traditional" model?

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I can definitely see some of the control issues. Also, I could see some possibility of political fall out for people involved.
    I suspect that the political issues are exactly the two you listed: institutional / professional control over knowledge and political backlash. To that, I would also add a security issue. After all, some of the stuff we would be talking about is probably of great interest to people who shouldn't have access to it <wry grin>.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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