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Thread: Londonistan: Muslim communities in France & UK

  1. #1
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Londonistan: Muslim communities in France & UK

    An interesting long range analysis of the French and UK response to their Muslim communities, by a French academic, Professor Gilles Keppel: http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=22920

    It originally appeared in February 2010, but I only re-discovered it today. He is a sometimes controversial voice, as indicated by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Kepel

    Largely for historical reasons IMHO neither the UK or the USA closely look at how France has responded to the violent Jihad and Muslim communities. Plus of course the language barrier.

    SWC has looked at French COIN a few times, within other threads and I fear the most visual lesson was watching 'The Battle of Algiers'.

    Cross-cultural articles like this are worth reading and so here it is.
    davidbfpo

  2. #2
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Londonistan after the Arab Spring

    The phrase Londonistan dates back a few years, from Wiki:
    Londonistan is a pejorative sobriquet in use by parts of the media referring to the British capital of London and the British Government's tolerance of the presence of various Islamist groups in London and other major cities of Britain as long as they carry out their controversial agendas, ideologies or terror campaigns outside of Britain.
    Or Omar Nasiri:
    The mid- to late 1990s were the years when Britain's capital earned the sobriquet of `Londonistan,` a title provided by French officials infuriated at the growing presence of Islamist radicals in London and the failure of British authorities to do anything about it. Raids in France and Belgium had produced phone and fax numbers linked to the United Kingdom, and names of suspects were passed on. Some French officials believe that if more had been done by Britain at the time, the network behind the summer of 1995 bombings might have been broken up and the attacks prevented
    Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonistan_(term)

    In a fascinating, detailed and lengthy, article two UK analysts have provided an update; published online in JUly 2012 and only just found 'UK Islamists and the Arab Uprisings' in Current Trends in Islamist Ideology, Volume 13:http://www.currenttrends.org/researc...arab-uprisings

    Some real surprises, like the defection of a Muslim Brotherhood activist who returned to Egypt.

    From the conclusion:
    UK Islamism, like Islam in Britain as a whole, remains very much a cacophony of disparate trends and a work in progress whose ultimate trajectory is hard to determine. Given the enormous diversity of Islamist groups and individuals in the UK, no single pattern defines Islamists’ reactions to the Arab Spring. At the same time, however, the Arab uprisings have clearly shaken up the often stagnant waters of British Islamism, catalyzing change and accelerating existing trends; sometimes triggering new moderation and pragmatism, in other instances reinforcing existing extremist views.....(my emphasis) it is already clear that while many Islamists arrived in the West hoping to change it, it was instead in many cases the West that changed them.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 08-20-2012 at 08:21 PM.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    it is already clear that while many Islamists arrived in the West hoping to change it, it was instead in many cases the West that changed them.
    This is also easily visible with most second generation 'immigrants'.

    The troublesome asshole radicals are the converts.
    Converts in general (between churches, religions, sects, ideologies, political parties etc) tend to be extremists in their discipline.

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    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Dame Stella Rimington talk at the Chautauqua Institute on August 16 2012, covered by CSPAN2; Radicalism, Reality, and Romance

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Romanc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Rimington
    Sapere Aude

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default A return to Londonistan?

    A BBC News overview that starts with:
    The widely acknowledged failure of the Arab Spring uprisings to deliver democracy to the Middle East is reverberating here in Britain. With a backlash under way by some Arab governments against their opponents, such as the Muslim Brotherhood, could London once again become a haven for Arab dissidents bent on removing their own governments, as it was in the 1990s?
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/27055108
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default A guilty verdict for "Hook" Hamza

    For many in the UK Abu Hamza was the symbol for Londonistan and many here thought there was no will to prosecute him for a long, long time. That criticism is fuelled by his liasion with the police / intelligence agencies and the defence's claim:
    His defence claimed he had assisted MI5 "to keep the streets of London safe".
    So now he has been convicted in New York and awaits sentencing. Two UK reports:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27478998 and slightly more detailed:http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...rorism-charges



    Added: denials that Hamza was a useful counter to extremism and some insight into UK prosecution decisions:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...informant.html

    An informant says the UK authorities were "chickens":http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...upergrass.html
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-20-2014 at 11:17 AM.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Parisistan: extreme kippah-walk in Paris:

    Kippah-wearing Israeli reporter harassed in Paris while filming
    http://www.jta.org/2015/02/15/news-o...ippah-in-paris

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIfuDbhEhQ

    I fail to see why those insults called anti-Semitic if they are thrown by Semitic Arabs. good term "judaeophobic" is more suitable, I believe.

    ps. The same experiment tried in Moscow

    http://msk.kp.ru/daily/26347.4/3229296/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnRGrxXWG_E

    Conclusion: people just don't give a fu(K to kippah and Jew under it.
    To be honest, this experiment fails basic rigor, because there is no Muslim ghettos in Moscow.
    Last edited by mirhond; 02-28-2015 at 08:53 AM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    Parisistan: extreme kippah-walk in Paris:



    http://www.jta.org/2015/02/15/news-o...ippah-in-paris

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIfuDbhEhQ

    I fail to see why those insults called anti-Semitic if they are thrown by Semitic Arabs. good term "judaeophobic" is more suitable, I believe.

    ps. The same experiment tried in Moscow

    http://msk.kp.ru/daily/26347.4/3229296/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnRGrxXWG_E

    Conclusion: people just don't give a fu(K to kippah and Jew under it.
    To be honest, this experiment fails basic rigor, because there is no Muslim ghettos in Moscow.
    come on mirhond now you are the world's expert on Muslim's and or Jews???? the last time I checked a massive number of Jews left the former Soviet Union for Israel and Germany---seems to cement the opinion it is not safe anywhere in the current Soviet Union if one looks at the latest anti Semitic rants coming from Russian fascists and Russian ultra nationalists and oh do not forget the various Russian Nazi groups--- right mirhond?

    but wait I forgot mirhond all those Russian Nazi mercenaries are right now all in the Donbas fighting those junta fascists from Kyiv--or did you not see a vast number of their Ukrainian and Russian VK photos that I have posted---right?

    AND there are no Muslims anywhere in the Soviet Union these days? and there is not a Muslim ghetto in Moscow how about those 30,000?--come on I even know that statement is incorrect as there is one as you should know as you are Russian.

    NOW you are in an area that is my specialty and I know you do not speak Arabic.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-28-2015 at 09:06 AM.

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