America’s safer streets: why is elusive

[Fuchs]

Massive drug control spending has no effect on addiction rate



(Chart shows only federal drug control, $1.5T refers to all costs associated with drug prohibition.)

[Bill Moore]

The above chart (even if the numbers are exaggerated) prompts a couple of questions that we really need to understand the answers to before we throw more money at this war.

- Why are we waging a war on the drugs in the first place? What is "real" threat?

- Why is the drug problem getting worse after we spent billions on "combating" it?

- Why don't we wage a war on political correctness (both left and right) which include the argument that we have to wage the war in the first place? It is political dogma and the associated propaganda that traps us indefinitely in a bubble of stupidity. Pop the bubble and we'll have freedom of thought which will enable us to actually come up with more intelligent solutions to real problems.

[AdamG]

Two teenagers were killed and 24 others were wounded across Chicago Saturday night through Sunday morning. Police said 15 of the victims were affiliated with gangs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5277041.story

[tequila]

States could be test cases for marijuana legalization

The test case instead could be Washington, where voters on Nov. 6 will decide whether to directly confront the federal ban on marijuana and embrace a sprawling plan to legalize, regulate and tax sales at state-licensed pot stores.

Speculation on the potential federal blowback is rife.
Would the Obama administration pick a legal fight over states' rights to try to block Initiative 502? Would federal prosecutors charge marijuana growers and retailers, even if they are authorized by state law?

Or would — as some opponents and supporters predict — federal authorities denounce the law but largely leave Washington alone?

Apparently marijuana legalization is on the ballot in Colorado, Washington, and Oregon, and leads in Washington.

[Fuchs]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...nterview-pt--1


http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-16-2012/exclusive---eugene-jarecki-extended-interview-pt--2

[Firn]

States could be test cases for marijuana legalization



Apparently marijuana legalization is on the ballot in Colorado, Washington, and Oregon, and leads in Washington.

I have to confess it midly irritates me when local papers here make a great fuss of a couple of plants hidden in some forest or some garden. The allocation of law enforcement ressources seems hardly be ideal, especially in the light of the massive scandals which have shaken Italy in those last months.

---

In the so-called Controlling courses I enrolled a big topic were the limitations of (and manipulatable) key performance targets, especially if they were tied up with a bonus-malus system. We humans are humans and too often like the easier path more. If the pressure is high and the target difficult to achieve (or sometimes out of our reach) the incentives are big to do something about the yard stick. Professional and personal experience have confirmed it.

[carl]

The above chart (even if the numbers are exaggerated) prompts a couple of questions that we really need to understand the answers to before we throw more money at this war.

- Why are we waging a war on the drugs in the first place? What is "real" threat?

- Why is the drug problem getting worse after we spent billions on "combating" it?

- Why don't we wage a war on political correctness (both left and right) which include the argument that we have to wage the war in the first place? It is political dogma and the associated propaganda that traps us indefinitely in a bubble of stupidity. Pop the bubble and we'll have freedom of thought which will enable us to actually come up with more intelligent solutions to real problems.

There are a lot of rice bowls that would be broken if the current system were to change. The first link that Fuchs provided highlights that. Billions and billions are involved along with all the LE jobs that go with those billions. Combine that with good old fashioned Puritanical moralism (sic) and you have a very firmly established system.

[Bill Moore]

Carl,

I watched the links Fuchs provided and found them very interesting, but on the other hand little new, since I was very aware of those issues for some time. I conducting a security survey of a U.S. prison in the early 90s to assess the security for putting what we now call a HVI there for a while. Spent a fair amount of time with guards, and they were all critical of the drug war back then for the reasons stated in the video.

The point of the questions were to clarify intent of the war for our national leadership. They need to openly discuss why are we waging it to begin with it? What is the real threat? Why is the problem getting worse after 40 years or so of fighting the drug war? What are the consequences of fighting the drug war?

The world was going to end if we legalized alcohol, but somehow we survived. We haven't outlawed tobacco, just made it tougher to use, yet we manage to survive. We can discourage drug use my limiting job options with drug tests, etc. at much less cost than what appears to be tragic waste of dollars and ruining people's lives with the label of felon if they were busted for drug use. You are right though, that would threaten a lot of livelihoods tied to the drug war.

[slapout9]

Link to Real News Network interview of Law Enforcement Officers against Prohibition. Never new there was such a group



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjwv6...eature=g-all-u

[carl]

The point of the questions were to clarify intent of the war for our national leadership. They need to openly discuss why are we waging it to begin with it? What is the real threat? Why is the problem getting worse after 40 years or so of fighting the drug war? What are the consequences of fighting the drug war?

Bill:

Sorry I misunderstood.

I think the smart ones have asked all those questions. Their answers to themselves are that it doesn't work and the whole thing needs to be radically changed-ie. legalization to some extent of some to all of it. But they won't admit that openly because they are afraid of the 'But what about the children?' argument.

Here in Colorado the legalization of marijuana is on the ballot. The radio commercials for are what you would expect, it doesn't work, it treats adults like children, tides of money for the cartels and marijuana isn't actually all that bad. The radio commercials against are variations of the 'But what about the children?' argument. We'll see how it plays out.

A fellow I know, a magnificent old gentleman who has done things only a handful of people in the world have done, decided to vote for legalization because he said it just sort of occurred to him that the current course doesn't make any sense. He can't be the only one out there, so maybe things will change.

[Fuchs]

I cannot confirm this is legit, but it#s certainly interesting if it is:

http://www.good.is/posts/black-and-a...es-of-drug-use

A study published today in the Archives of General Psychiatry says that black and Asian teens are less likely to use drugs and alcohol than white people their age. In a survey of more than 72,000 young people conducted by Dan Blazer, a psychiatry professor at Duke Medical Center, 39 percent of white teens and 37 percent of Latinos reported having abused substances in the past year, compared to 32 percent of blacks and 24 percent of Asians. When it came to drugs alone, 20 percent of whites, 19 percent of blacks, and 12 percent of Asians reported using.

coupled with

Juvenile Arrest Rate Trends
Drug abuse violation arrest rates were equal for white juveniles and black juveniles in 1980.
Juvenile Arrest Rates for Drug Abuse Violations by Race, 1980-2009

makes the whole war on drugs look more like a race war that replaced segregation nation-wide than like actual policing.

[ganulv]

I cannot confirm this is legit

The journal is published by the AMA and is considered perhaps the flagship U.S. psychiatric journal. That does not necessarily, of course, insure lack of issues in research design, the usual problems inherent in the peer review process, or lack of intellectual integrity on the part of the authors, but I would say it qualifies the article as legit.

[M]akes the whole war on drugs look more like a race war that replaced segregation nation-wide than like actual policing.

False dichotomy!

I have not read the article, but I do wonder how the numbers breakdown by locale. For example, does anyone know if drug-related arrests take place at a higher rate in urban vs. rural areas?