The Cell Phone/Web Page effect

[RTK]

I'd like to hop aboard this too if I could, since it's essentially a counter-reconnaissance fight

[slapout9]

Everybody that requested info on TTP's. This for the open board part. I have already sent it to Rob but I saved so I am just going to send it to you guys but it will have Rob's name on it. These are police techniques so you will have to adapt for military use. I don't know for sure because I don't know what your final Objective is but you should be able to adapt with little problem.

I retired the end of 02 so I don't have my security clearance anymore so I cannot get the exact warning that was put out to LE on the auto answer of the cell phone however I remember it since I had this #### pulled on me it is in the PM.

MP units,CID,Naval Investigations should know or can get any details.
Caliber Press has a Street Survival series and they often issue warnings of this type. Must be LE and they check!! I can't even get on anymore and one of my adventures was used in one of their seminars. Again any MP, Provost Marshal,CID types can subscribe for free and I highly recommend somebody do this. They can find original warnings and articles on the cell phone. They are good folks and would probably let SWJED,Bill,RTK have access. But DO NOT POST on an open board and DO NOT LET THE PRESS get it!!! They do not cooperate with the press because they are usually so ####ty about security and exposing LE officers personal details.

This is a three day weekend and I have some friends that are techies in our local DA's office that specialize in this stuff. Tuesday I will see about other stuff going on, I know they already have a bunch of stuff for PDA devices that local LE is using while waiting for funding on the big ticket items.

Hope this wasn't to jumbled my wife gave me a" honey do list" for the weekend and I am popped. Later guys watch your PM's

[Jedburgh]

Slapout is correct - because of dealing with these issues with gangs and organized crime (and these days, there's only a very fine line separating sophisticated street gangs from organized crime syndicates) certain elements within the LE community are way ahead of the military in developing awareness of the threat.

Thinking along those lines, I probably should have posted this resource on here sooner - for those who aren't already aware:

The Online Research and Intelligence Mailing List is a list-serve that is great for posting RFIs on subjects such as the topic of this thread, and for picking up bits and pieces of other info dealing with potential threat use of 'net technologies.

The Online Research and Intelligence Mailing List is a forum for Police, Regulatory and other Law Enforcement personnel to discuss issues relating to online intelligence gathering, analysis and dissemination. This list is restricted to law enforcement and other qualified personnel only.

Military types fall under other qualified personnel. This list-serve is not real heavy, traffic-wise, and won't clog up your e-mail box. I know some shy away from list-serves, or drop off'em for just that reason; i.e. INTELST and LEANALYST tend to have more junk than worthwhile traffic. ORIML is just the opposite. Very rarely have I have received a posting that is worthless.

[slapout9]

Guess I should have posted the link. Here it is.

http://www.calibrepress.com/home/log...ine/index.html

[Bill Moore]

http://www.whosarat.com/

Gentlemen,

I am no position to vouch on the accuracy of this website, but it appears to be an open source site for criminals, one that could put undercover police officers, their sources, and others at grave risk. Talk about background checks! It appears once you register, you can post any information you have, which means if you want to get someone knocked off you may be able to faslely accuse him of being a rat (both pro's and con's to this approach when you think about disrupting networks by sowing distrust).

There is no reason that AQ and other insurgent groups can't use this methodology.

Slapout what are your brothers in arms in LE saying about this site? Is it B.S.? If it isn't, why can't the government shut it down?

I found this link on U.S. News.com best websites (and worst), so it now should be fairly well known. I couldn't believe it, call me a dinasour, but I still can't believe it.

Bill

[Jedburgh]

http://www.whosarat.com/...I am no position to vouch on the accuracy of this website, but it appears to be an open source site for criminals, one that could put undercover police officers, their sources, and others at grave risk. Talk about background checks! It appears once you register, you can post any information you have, which means if you want to get someone knocked off you may be able to falsely accuse him of being a rat (both pro's and con's to this approach when you think about disrupting networks by sowing distrust).

There is no reason that AQ and other insurgent groups can't use this methodology.

Slapout what are your brothers in arms in LE saying about this site? Is it B.S.? If it isn't, why can't the government shut it down?

The site has been around for a while - there was an official warning put out to the LE community about it back in '04:

...Don't visit the Internet website www.whosarat.com. The site consists of a published list of government IP addresses, the names and photographs of law enforcement officers, and the names of confidential informants. Visiting the site could result in the compromise of government IP addresses. Searching the site for a particular name could result in that name being cross-indexed to the IP address of the computer used to make the inquiry. Searching for the names of officers or informants could compromise those individual's identities. Any website is capable of collecting IP address and search information from visitors, but this site is remarkable because it makes visitor information public. This published information could be used by criminals and/or terrorists to hinder law enforcement efforts and endanger officers and informants. Do not visit this or similar sites from computers that use a government IP address, and do not search this or similar sites for officer or informant names...

[slapout9]

Guys, funny you should mention that. It did not involve that site but I just had a friend go through that. He was assigned to a DEA task force and made one the largest bust made in our area. His police ID picture was put on a web sight,his home address,digital photos of what he looked like undercover,probably done with a cell phone. Final result nothing really one records clerk was fired and it ended up in federal court, the drug case is still pending. The suspect is a multi-millionaire and thats the name of that tune.

Me personally I have had a couple of articles that were written about me and some police academy's in the mid west teach my case in how to survive an ambush by a psycho stalker type. He impersonated an Alabama State trooper to get info on me and he got it! He had a large insurance policy taken out on me, yep that's right you really can do that (it was never issued). But things did not work out as he planned.

He planned to kill me and my wife and then start shooting police officers as they responded, but as I said didn't work out that way. My stalking case was known to multiple LE agencies for 6 months before the attack but, the laws were different then so other than some warnings, you just have to develop so good TTP's on fly and fight like hell when that day comes. It isn't really funny (yeah it is) but people used to come up to me and say I thought you were dead? Nope still here anyway be careful and have a happy new year.

[Rob Thornton]

Slapout,
Thanks for the PM. I'm going to make contact with them today. CF has a couple of the capabilities (or similiar ones), but they keep it close hold (for good reason). However some of the stuff you mentioned I think will go to good use, if not immediately, then in the very near future.
I'll borrow Bill's use of 3GW & 4GW to describe some of the problem. The IA understand the AIF (anybody who works to undermine security & stability). However, they have one foot on the 3GW side of the door and one foot in the 4GW side of the door. The AIF operate on the 4GW side, the CF operate on the 3GW side (although we are getting better all the time). This has created a conflict of interests. Its hard to resource 4GW solutions when the resource holder is looking through 3GW goggles. Also when interacting with CF, many of the IA leaders must use the 3GW translation box because that is what they have come to expect from CF. I think we may be on the way to a remedy, right now I've seen bits and pieces on several threads.
The header - ref. Bluetooth is something I meant to mention before. Understanding the cultural importance of cell phones is important. It is a status symbol. The ISF & AIF understand it, the CF ledership doesn't (however, I think the Joes do - especially the young ones).
What if you wanted to get your message across in a way that was cheaper then printing; featured more content and context then combining images and the written word; was more secure in some ways then posting to a site where others could monitor it or track it; took advantage of a cultural value system that ensured trafficability; could be passed on like a viral contagen? Well, high tech cell phones with Bluetooth allow for that, its even more potent when combined with a social culture where people interact on the streets and the mosques.
I've had IA soldiers show me incredible videos that I think are unlikely to have been obtained from anywhere else besides cell phone to cellphone contact. Mostly it ammounts to belly dancing or something close to it. They also share video from contacts, or from the aftermaths of contacts - the other day one showed me a horrific scene from a SVBIED attack. I've seen some bad stuff out here, but it never occurred to me to film other then those things I wanted for evidence or tactical relevance. These kids however focused on different things - I think it has allot to do with living on and off in a war state for 26 years (for some of these guys it means they were born in it). The videos spread like an epidemic, but primarily through their target audience. Occassionally it hits a neutral, which allows for some degree of deniability when questioned about the videos prescence - looking at the contents of the cell phone is a common and well known TTP used by both sides. Ask any Iraqi who must travel through non secure areas and they will tell you.
I think we need to acknowledge the relevance of these cultural technologies and reinforce our host nation partners (resourcing, coordination and synchronization) that fits. We have a tendency toward bias based on our belief in our tech superiority; the, "How could this be better then what I have?" While our tech can give platform resoultion to those friendlies loaded in a database to include grids to 1 meter, speed, altitude, currency value, etc.; they cannot circumvent the AIF's ability to collect & dissimininate raw information at cell phone speed without tearing donw all the cell phone towers and thus disrupting all civilian communication such as emergency, etc. - chaos

BTW on our use of technology as it applies to a host nation that does not have nearly the same compatible tech

-never give a 10 digit grid to a IA patrol, just get them to the intersection, or a good 6 digit grid that makes sense. The IA like GPS if we can get them one that is easy to use, functions soley of AAs or a recharger - but don't send a 10 digit grid - I don't even like 10 digit grids

- Don't tell an IA patrol to go to a location and check out an IED or SVBIED with an exact grid and expect them to go and do that while your million $$ UAV looks for them to do so. They are not stupid and they have no ECM, nor are they EOD or have EOD capabilities except perhaps at some DIV levels. People who go and look for IEDs without ECM and EOD usually only do it once. How may times have I gotten a rado call from a CF partner that was miffed because the IA did not go to the grid while their UAV circled it. What the IA would do is go to a location where they can observe, then when theyare saisfied, they will go check it out. Oh, and remember their IA HMMWVs are 1025 rebuilds with LVL 2 armor, no FRAG 5 kits, and most patrols don't have NVGs or any of the really cool thermals we do either. They will tackle a problem IAW their capabilities.

-Don't get miffed when your IA counterparts are having a hard time doing a LU with you because you gave them a 10 digit grid and they are having a hard time finding you in the back alleys while you stare at a screen with DTED 5 or better imagery with blue icons wondering why you can find the link up point so easy and they can't.

-Don't name OBJs for combined operations after American Cultural things that offer no realtivity or significance in Arab culture - we pick our naming conventions because they work for us. Intead pick something everbody understands like colors or something. Same with routes - telling an IA patrol to meet you on RTE MCDONALDS and giving them directions from RTE WENDY'S because that is what is on your classified secret BFT screen or non-relasable except to CF pocket map is wasting time; instead learn the names of the local roads and land marks that these guys grew up with, its ususallypretty easy.

-Don't use the UAV to give an IA patrol on the ground directions when it goes through an E-5 analyst at a BDE TOC who is talking to an E-4 RTO at the BDE TOC who is talking to an E-4 RTO on BDE net at a TF TOC who is telling a NBQ'd CPT Battle CPT who is looking at a map and telling another E-4 RTO on the TF Net who is calling the MiTT team who is trying to relay directions that are now at least 60 seconds old to a guy walking the ground through the Iraqi RTO on a motorola at 0200 trying to find a guy the UAV spotted running away from X altitude from an IED attack that took place 45 minutes ago. Its a dumb idea. Instead use an interpreter and call him on his really cool cell phone.

OK - I've ranted enough, but I think its worthwhile to reinforce the point with some other examples.

Happy New Years. So far a quiet day here. We're sharing some cultural roast turkey and beef with our IA counterparts today- deep frying the turkey breasts. The IA are going to bring the sides. AFN football in the late evening (8 hours between here and the E. Coast). Here is to a New Year's that bring more security and more stability to a place where many people I believe deserve it. May God bring us all a good 2007.

regards, Rob