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Thread: The Cell Phone/Web Page effect

  1. #21
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Bill,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    This cell phone video, along with the widely published digital images of Abu Ghrab, and other rapidly disseminated key photographs show the power that the average citizen, soldier, etc. has to shape world opinion, almost overnight.
    Too true - too bad we aren't using it

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I think even Churchill would have been challenged in this IO environment.
    Nah... He would have just conscripted a bunch of teenagers to act as his IO experts

    Marc
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  2. #22
    Council Member CPT Holzbach's Avatar
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    Default Awesome.

    Great thread. Rob, your post with all the little TTPs and commonsense made me wanna re-activate myself (although the House of Acronyms is really kicking my ass and Ive only been out since August.)

    -never give a 10 digit grid to a IA patrol, just get them to the intersection, or a good 6 digit grid that makes sense. The IA like GPS if we can get them one that is easy to use, functions soley of AAs or a recharger - but don't send a 10 digit grid - I don't even like 10 digit grids
    Tell me about it. Ive yet to hear what we need to find in a 1 square meter box. Grids are usually for buildings. 8 digits is plenty, thanks so much.

    Don't name OBJs for combined operations after American Cultural things that offer no realtivity or significance in Arab culture
    I dont understand why we cant just name them after colors and cardinal directions, all the time. It's universal. Hell, one time, in training, I named my PLT's two OBJs "OBJ Left" and "OBJ Right". Worked just fine.

    And here's some bitter personal ranting: The only parts of a BDE level staff that is useful (for platoons, where it counts) in COIN is the S-2. The same goes for Battalion. The fact is, in COIN, battalion level is STRATEGIC. Company is OPERATIONAL. Platoon and squad is TACTICAL. Sorry, but Brigade and higher is essentially strategic and grand strategic. People need to stop being dazzled by general's stars and start being dazzled by chevrons and butter bars (it rhymes!). Battalion commander's discretionary funding? That should be the platoon leader's $. POUND the lessons of COIN into our platoon leader's and NCOs, take the leash off, and then open up the checkbook. They'll win the war.
    "The Infantryís primary role is close combat, which may occur in any type of mission, in any theater, or environment. Characterized by extreme violence and physiological shock, close combat is callous and unforgiving. Its dimensions are measured in minutes and meters, and its consequences are final." - Paragraph 1-1, FM 3-21.8: Infantry Rifle PLT and SQD.

    - M.A. Holzbach

  3. #23
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Default Book Suggestion for this topic

    A Legal And Law Enforcement Guide To Telephony: Addressing Technical, Legal And Police Issues Relating To The Interface And Interaction With Communication Service Providers (Hardcover) by George Mulczan is a good tutorial on Telecommunications written in a simple enough format for non IT types. I am almost positive that it goes into VOIP technology as well as the POTS networks. The one review on amazon.com doesn't do the book enough justice for the amount of useful information it provides.

    Dopers are placing GPS enabled cell phones with their "packages." They are not only getting a cheap surreptitious listening device but one that can be tracked.
    Last edited by bismark17; 01-02-2007 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #24
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default Blue Force Tracker / FedEx tracker on the cheap?

    Bismark,
    Could this mean that when the carrier of cell phone X gets pinched, his boss knows the location he is being held?? Man does that ever fit - everybody see where I'm going? The utility of cell phone trumps again. Over here its not unusual for guys to carry multiple phones, a smart guy might have one configured to specific modes. A clever guy (and there are many a clever bad guy with some minor resources- so I'm thinking its already a fact since they are out there and receiving aid from clever guys with lots of resources) could make this work pretty easy. The "to do" list with such things could be lengthy. This one is going to make my head hurt, but I'll pitch it to my smart IA Intel guys and see what they can up with - it might also explain some things that have been bothering me.
    Thanks - Rob

  5. #25
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bismark17 View Post
    A Legal And Law Enforcement Guide To Telephony: Addressing Technical, Legal And Police Issues Relating To The Interface And Interaction With Communication Service Providers (Hardcover) by George Mulczan is a good tutorial on Telecommunications written in a simple enough format for non IT types. I am almost positive that it goes into VOIP technology as well as the POTS networks. The one review on amazon.com doesn't do the book enough justice for the amount of useful information it provides.

    Dopers are placing GPS enabled cell phones with their "packages." They are not only getting a cheap surreptitious listening device but one that can be tracked.

    A couple years back I was doing some research on Web 2.0 redefining the communications paradigm and I pitched a book that would cover the changes in technology and how it effects the communication conduit of criminals.

    Nobody gave a darn the feedback was that it didn't apply or was unworkable as a topic. The social interactivity possible between blue tooth (blue jacking), high speed networks (Edge and CDMA), ubiquity of devices (Cameras and Blackberry), and the capability of the devices themselves create an entire fifth dimension to warfare.

  6. #26
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    I think one of the main reasons why they are so intent on monitoring the packages is too make sure that they are not getting ripped by the mules or the people moving the product. There is so little interdiction of the products overall that I don't think they as concerned with that as they are of being ripped off by elements of their own organizations or the entities that they "contract" with to get the products moved. The L.E. siezures can be written off as the price of doing business but having potential rivals arising from within their own groups is a far greater threat.

    In this day and age I don't think there are many single entities who are capable of handling the overall point to point distribution of any illicit products such as the former Medellin cartel did with Coke. It creates too much of a signature that attracts attention. This is pure conjecture on my part since I work in L.E. at a local level.

  7. #27
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    If you can't get a publisher maybe write a research paper. I would sure be interested!!! There is so much of an explosion in technology these days that it would take numerous papers to cover any single topic in proper depth. We have been seeing people "war driving" or attempting to locate unsecured wireless access for several years. I am sure that in many of the cases these people aren't just looking for free access but are looking to download illicit items over someone elses account. I also wonder how much covert communication is being done over on-line gaming chat channels for another example.

  8. #28
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Another aspect with cellphones are that suspects EDITED FOR OPSEC. I do have access to some pretty high speed tech/Intel people that I can put you in touch with if you send me an email address. Take Care and Be Safe!
    Last edited by jcustis; 01-03-2007 at 12:57 PM. Reason: be careful to steer clear of opsec issues

  9. #29
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Selil,
    I think its a great premise. Up until now I've primarily thought of these adversaries as pursuing "low" tech. Instead I should be thinking "WalMart" tech - that being the proliferation of high tech services and applications into a cost affordable package which can be widely distributed and copied and has marketing appeal (too many polysyllabic words in one sentence for an 11 series ).
    I also like Bismark's inclusion of the cartel types. I mentioned in a PM to Slapout that one of the guys our IA BN pinched was carrying 6 or 7 brand new Sim Cards for the same phone showing both an assumption of our tech capabilities and a desire to mitigate them. I might also mention here that after doing a Google search the commercial market tech capabilities available to the bad guys are both affordable and sophisticated and if they are receiving tech support from neighbors, then I'm sure they are well aware of what's available. The fact that they have it easier to monitor others (just listen for the conversations in English) only cuts down their workload. I think many of the organizations here have conducted a vulnerabilities assessment (and they did not even have to bring in a contractor to do it) and are now actively adapting - another reason to go back and re-read the T.X. Hammes article on countering bad guy networks.
    What I think we have here are layers of criminal activities supporting each other - a "criminal economy" that is strong and attractive given the alternatives - and as such is virulent. I suppose such things are common wherever you put allot of people together that discover an opportunity, but since I've grown up more "Mongo Smash" then "Growing up Gotti", this is all sort of new to me. I'm getting smarter though thanks to guys like I've linked up with here at SWJ - My thanks to all.
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 01-03-2007 at 06:54 AM. Reason: addition of info

  10. #30
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    The irony of it all, is that with our current acquisition and property management cycle, the 4GW insurgents can actually buy superior items before we in the military can ever dream of fielding it.

    And at a very small fraction of the cost.

  11. #31
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Morning Guys, I am at my day job so I can not do much. But I will post later, Bismarck glad to see you join in. I think your comments are dead on. Later

  12. #32
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    OK I am at home now and I have a couple of items to add.

    1-I never saw an actual answer but yes a GPS phone would give your location in the situation you talked about.

    2-LE has used what was known as a throw able GPS transmitter. They are not really throw able but can be dropped into a car trunk very easily, they are or were about the size of a brick. These can be found on the INTERNET and anybody with cash can get one or two or three.

    3-Radios shack is a dreamland. macrt mentioned them earlier. They will call their engineering department and get an answer on how to do something and do it cheap. This is not just technical information they have actual engineers they will contact. They will usually tell you there is already an off the shelf item that will do what you want or with slight modification. Usually they have the stuff in the store or can get it easily.

    Rob, I have some more but I will use a PM for that.

  13. #33
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    The irony of it all, is that with our current acquisition and property management cycle, the 4GW insurgents can actually buy superior items before we in the military can ever dream of fielding it.

    And at a very small fraction of the cost.

    Some interesting things about communications

    You can create a fully encrypted (256+ bit encryption) communication conduit that is not traceable by any current known means for less than $250 a unit using off the shelf parts. Using readily available wi-fi/cell phones that operate on VOIP networks you can configure some of them to use anonymizers to hide the location of the account holder completely. Thankfully the performance of the different anonymizers is so poor as to make them hard to use. Still high grade encryption and ubiquity of anonymous access points make them highly effective and access to the POTS is not required.

    Of course when you start dealing with encrypted cell phones there are a variety of products available. In some respects these types of phones arenít very expensive coming in at a few thousand dollars for the good versions. Also finding an operative on a cell tower is nearing instantaneous depending on the search method. Whether encryption is used or not simple triangulation allows for finding the cell phone based on the ESN as the billing entity needs that information.

    A common method used by criminals (and dead beat dads but that is another story), is to buy several disposable cell phones using either illicit IDís or at less than reputable dealers (can you say swap meet?). They will use the cell phones a few times and toss them. At $40 or $50 each it is an effective anti-tracing technique. Whether the NSA or other signals agencies have some super secret live voice analysis (you never know who does what on this web forum) of picking a drug dealer out of a million callers or not it is likely most domestic agencies do not.

    Pervasive ubiquity and advanced encryption create an environment that on the surface would seem hopeless. These methods of communications could be used by drug dealers, terrorists, white collar criminals, and the average citizen worried about privacy. For law enforcement and intelligence gathering organizations it has to be realized early that the ubiquity of the data networks means the subject may have a faster, more secure, and robust network than a first responder may possess. Solutions donít abound as most tracing technologies and interception technologies are dependent on end points and in most cases restricted by rule of law.

  14. #34
    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Default We're Losing the Infowar

    From this week's Newsweek by Scott Johnson

  15. #35
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    I'd have to agree with everything I read there. I've pitched the idea that the ISF should start standing up their own webpages - maybe you have a ISF Mosul, or a IA or IP Mosul where videos shot of ISF victories are posted. You could even address rumors by putting out the latest info - you'd have to be slick though, and you'd have to hire the right guys. Why, because the guy going up against your site could be anyone, anywhere in the world.

    CF types are not real keen on it though, and even if they are, they are not sure how to do it. This is something where we could take a page out of the badguy's book. We take the video, email it to the team(s) back in FT Livingroom and they turn and maintain a product that gets our message out - another team also stationed at FT Livingroom could be attacking the badguy sites - or manipulating their message. Hell, you coud even set up decoy sites, copy cat sites where you post messages as them (Marc mentioned something like this in another post or in an email). There are an infiniite number of ways to inject doubt into the badguy's message while getting ours out. With the power of state sponsored apparatuses, we can certianly focus mass more easily for cyber attacks - look at China's training program. Its really just a question of resoucing it. Yea, I know, some buggerer from the ACLU woud start screaming, but how about if we did it from Canada (Marc, any thoughts?? )

    I am serious though about getting smart on Information Warfare, its not just about collecting info, its about information dominance that includes you getting your message out and attacking his - the politicians should have no problem with this one.
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 01-08-2007 at 12:16 PM.

  16. #36
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    This is something where we could take a page out of the badguy's book. We take the video, email it to the team(s) back in FT Livingroom and they turn and maintain a product that gets our message out - another team also stationed at FT Livingroom could be attacking the badguy sites - or manipulating their message. Yea, I know, some buggerer from the ACLU woud start screaming, but how about if we did it from Canada (Marc, any thoughts?? )

    I am serious though about getting smart on Information Warfare, its not just about collecting info, its about information dominance that includes you getting your message out and attacking his - the politicians should have no problem with this one.
    Food for thought and maybe some type of action we can take from the SWJ / SWC livingroom - any ideas out there on how to make this happen - if indeed we should?

  17. #37
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default Gettin' down and dirty in cyberspace...

    Hi Guys,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    I'd have to agree with everything I read there. I've pitched the idea that the ISF should start standing up their own webpages - maybe you have a ISF Mosul, or a IA or IP Mosul where videos shot of ISF victories are posted. You could even address rumors by putting out the latest info - you'd have to be slick though, and you'd have to hire the right guys. Why, because the guy going up against your site could be anyone, anywhere in the world.
    Personally, think that that would be an excellent idea. When I was reading Kilcullen's email that was posted in another thread, one thing he said really popped for me:

    I sometimes feel as if a new paradigm is on the tip of my tongue, and I have a strong feeling that the solution (if there is one) is about a strategic form of armed propaganda that goes well beyond our current concept of IO into a type of semi-kinetic "influence operations".
    What really resonated for me was that what he seems to be seeing is what I am trying to see with all the stuff I'm talking about with symbolic warfare. In some ways it goes back to "what are we selling?". Well, certainly in Iraq at the moment, we are trying to sell a fairly simple idea - security is better than chaos. But, as anyone in marketing will tell you, you've got to get the message out to the potential customers (darn, maybe I've been doing to much market research consulting ).

    Putting up local pages is a fantastic way to get this across. There's a few other things that can also work <evil grin>.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    CF types are not real keen on it though, and even if they are, they are not sure how to do it. This is something where we could take a page out of the badguy's book. We take the video, email it to the team(s) back in FT Livingroom and they turn and maintain a product that gets our message out - another team also stationed at FT Livingroom could be attacking the badguy sites - or manipulating their message. Hell, you coud even set up decoy sites, copy cat sites where you post messages as them (Marc mentioned something like this in another post or in an email). There are an infiniite number of ways to inject doubt into the badguy's message while getting ours out. With the power of state sponsored apparatuses, we can certianly focus mass more easily for cyber attacks - look at China's training program. Its really just a question of resoucing it. Yea, I know, some buggerer from the ACLU woud start screaming, but how about if we did it from Canada (Marc, any thoughts?? )
    Well, I'm not sure how useful the "state sponsored apparatuses" would be. Personally, I think that they would just be co-opted by the politics of the moment. As far as the ACLU is concerned, I actually think that they would be a great ally in this type of campaign <truly evil grin>. Look at it this way, globally, one of the core cultural values that we are selling is the idea of civilized disagreement - i.e. that it is just wrong to snuff everyone who disagrees with you. This is one of the ACLU's core values as well, so there is a potential alliance here.

    As for running this from Canada, that's certainly a possibility <g>. There are some very interesting, below the surface trends starting to show up here. Anyway, I think it would be best to run it globally as well as locally.

    On the truly nasty tactics that we could use, I'd really prefer not to make suggestions on an open board <evil grin>.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    I am serious though about getting smart on Information Warfare, its not just about collecting info, its about information dominance that includes you getting your message out and attacking his - the politicians should have no problem with this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWJED View Post
    Food for thought and maybe some type of action we can take from the SWJ / SWC livingroom - any ideas out there on how to make this happen - if indeed we should?
    I certainly think that the SWJ / SWC livingroom should be one site in it (it already bis anyway). But let's, for a second, go back to Kilcullen's ideas of a distributed global system: the key would be to get multiple sites involved using the same logic that created the 'net in the first place.

    Dave/Bill, what would you think about starting a "best of" page for something like ISF Mosul?

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  18. #38
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default "COPS" in Iraq

    Dave, on a police website there was a report of a "COPS" like TV show that was being done in Kirkuk. The American adviser was a Col. Petrie USA. It included live video and a call in section where citizens could call in and complain or compliment. I have never seen the show and don't know if it is still up and running but that was an interesting Idea, because the Iraq population did not know they could complain and not be shot or put in prison. The Col. said that was the hardest part when they first started was to get people to understand that they live under different rules now.

    2-What happened to the combat cameraman videos that were shown during WW2. Does the military still do something like this? Might want to bring that back to show the other side of the war as in showing things that are working not just bombs and bullets.

  19. #39
    Council Member JKM4767's Avatar
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    There are still combat cameramen. I had a few follow us around on OPS and what not. If you want to see the pro-military, pro-ISF stories, just go to the Army homepage, it's full of them.

  20. #40
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKM4767 View Post
    There are still combat cameramen. I had a few follow us around on OPS and what not. If you want to see the pro-military, pro-ISF stories, just go to the Army homepage, it's full of them.
    Hi JKM,

    Sure there's lots of videos there, but they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever in the "global market". The reason is the source. Any single video shot would have much more credibility posted on a "local" site that it does on the US Army homepage. Back to Rob's idea of an ISF Mosul site - something that "they" post will automatically have more international credibility that something posted by the US Army.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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