Side story on the recent gun spree

[jmm99]

Based on his book, Guns, Bullets, And Gunfights: Lessons And Tales From A Modern-Day Gunfighter (1996):



and, less formally:



Of course, Jim Cirillo used more than one stance, etc. - depending on context.

Never having been involved in any "Jim Cirillo context", I can only posit that I'd revert to my other experiences with the few pistols and revolvers I own. Each having been fired at least in the hundreds of times, but in different contexts for each handgun; my guestimate is that, in a "Jim Cirillo context", I'd revert to type (prior experience) for each handgun. Hope never to find out.

Finally, some decent comments on Cirillo and others here, Subject: Gun Fight Myths Dispelled (2006)(from p.5: "This was a great thread for talking about what bullets do when they hit people or things. No more 5.56 mm v. 7.62 nonsense."), with this about going from reality to training for reality (the following snipped from p.1):

Jim Cirillo, perhaps America's most experienced living police gunfighter, reported that he saw the front sight of his pistol in such sharp focus during his first gunfight that he noticed the little striations on the front sight of his S&W Model 10 as he felt it recoilling in his hand. Cirillo, though, had just burst out of a mop closet in a convenience store as it was being robbed. He reported that his heart was pounding, his legs felt like jelly, and that he remembered thinking "Who's shooting my pistol?," when he felt the recoil. He still got three hits on three robbers. When Cirillo retired from the NYPD he had been in 17 gunfights that resulted in 11 fatalities as a member of the now defunct, famous, infamous, NYPD Stakeout Squad.
...
>>He still got three hits on three robbers.<< Correction, he actually did better than that. He got two hits each on three different robbers, two of which were partially hidden behind the clerk for the first two shots, and running for the door for the second two. The time was estimated to be three to four seconds total. One robber was DRT, the other two were picked up later seeking treatment at a hospital ER. The old round nose .38 slugs hadn't dropped them even though Cirillo had two good hits on each man. The incident inspired the "Cirillo Drill" at matches and academies. Ray Chapman is reportedly the only man who has duplcated it on paper successfully. Cirillo admits that he's never been able to duplicate the feat again during range drills. Anyway, bottom line is that Cirillo knew he was about to be in a gunfight before the shooting started. The NYPD Stakeout Squad had very good hit percentages compared to most cops, but few of their gunfights involved them being in startle recovery mode. Most of their gunfights resulted after they initiated an armed confrontation in businesses that were being robbed.

Regards

Mike

[Stan]

This from an Arizona biker

I was worried that some Mod would take this down, at least until I saw Mike's recent pics

[Firn]

I wonder what the writer might say if the he reads a sign pointing in the other direction with the words:

Dear friends

My next door neighbour wants to have GUNS, GUNS and more GUNS.

Their home is full of GUNS.

Due to their guns I can not protect you and him from the strongly increased risk to get shot.

...

Sad but true. Extremists are rarely right and that cuts both ways as one should know after having looked at the facts presented in this thread.

[carl]

Firn:

Stan's sign says 'My neighbor is defenseless.' Your sign says 'My neighbor is a criminal.'

Neither is extremist. Both are pithy statements regarding some disagreements about fundamentals amongst the Americans. In my view the two fundamentals and they are these. First, do you have the right to defend yourself, yourself. Essentially one side says yes, you do. The other side says no, you don't. If you believe you do have the right to defend yourself, then you have to the right to bear arms, because if you don't have recourse to arms, you can't defend yourself, McGyver and Jean-Claude Van Damme excluded. If you don't have the right to defend yourself, weapons are not needed. Make not mistake about this issue, in the US the choice is that stark. One side is completely against citizens right to bear any, any arms; check out the gun laws in NYC and Chicago for an illustration of that.

The other fundamental is, do you trust your fellow citizens to act responsibly on their own? One side does, the other doesn't. If you do, the simple possession of weapons by your neighbor means nothing. If you don't, the simple possession of weapons by your neighbor means everything. This particular disagreement is a big one. Again look at NYC for an example of the one side getting the upper hand. The city will send men with guns after you if you sell cups of soda pop bigger than 16 oz. because the citizenry can be trusted to know how much pop they should drink.

What all this comes down to in my opinion is this, will the overarching philosophy directing our system of government be that the individual has primacy or will it be the individual does not and the state has primacy? There is really no compromise between the positions. People in this country realize this and that is why there is so much passion in the debate.

[carl]

Grab some neck meat, pinch hard, remove weapon from holster and hold it next to your head to aim, and fire into the hip.

Did that work? i don't like the idea of moving the gun up near my head in what might quickly turn into a wrestling match.

[Stan]

Did that work? i don't like the idea of moving the gun up near my head in what might quickly turn into a wrestling match.

Carl,
Once you got the routine down, it worked well. A bit hesitant at first with the slide literally against your face knowing as a southpaw, the spent cartridge was going to hit you right on the nose. The point was to keep your weapon as far out of reach and still be able to aim.

Never got to see what happens when a round goes through the hip. I'm told it should immediately make the assailant collapse.

[Stan]

Sad but true. Extremists are rarely right and that cuts both ways as one should know after having looked at the facts presented in this thread.

Firn,

You're dead on the money regarding the "opinions" (not facts herein) within this thread. While my picture is a tad extreme, it points out exactly what most of us herein continue to support and agree with.

Carl could not have put it better.

Sorry bro, but I thought it was both funny and sadly very true. But then, that's just me