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  1. #1
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    A friend of mine in CA was able to get three stores in his town to pull the Enquirer from the news stand or turn the issues so the back cover was showing not the front. All he did was ask them.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  2. #2
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default A retired soldier says

    I spent a career carrying typically either a M16, and later a M4 carbine..And a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It's designed to do that. That's what our soldiers ought to carry.

    I personally don't think there's any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we've got to take a serious look -- I understand everybody's desire to have whatever they want -- but we have to protect our children and our police and we have to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that.

    I think serious action is necessary. Sometimes we talk about very limited actions on the edges, and I just don't think that's enough.
    Asked what his message was to the National Rifle Association and the House Judiciary Committee:
    I think we have to look at the situation in America. The number of people killed by firearms is extraordinary compared to other nations. I don't think we're a bloodthirsty culture, and we need to look at everything we can do to safeguard our people.
    Stanley McChrystal said this today on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

    Will this make a difference? The article says:
    ..he is still revered by many as a top general, and his comments are significant for a former member of the military. If he does continue to advocate for gun control, he could be a significant voice in a movement whose opposition appeals to machismo.
    Link:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2431063.html
    davidbfpo

  3. #3
    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    Always good to get some expert opinion (from the vid on David’s link, based on McChrystal’s remarks on .223):

    “…You get hit with a modern weapon and it will take your arm off….”
    “I know…”
    “…it won’t just leave a bullet hole….”
    “…we don’t need to be told that….”
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    (Arthur Schopenhauer)

    ONWARD

  4. #4
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    To be accurate he was a FIRED retired soldier who didn't have the common sense not to insult his own commander in chief.

  5. #5
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Not to mention

    Anyone who makes or supports the statement:
    “…You get hit with a modern weapon and it will take your arm off….”
    is likely not an expert...

    That's an ideological or political statement, not a factual or accurate comment.

    So a guy who got where he was by playing politics then left because he was playing politics is again entering a political fray. Smart. Real smart...

  6. #6
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Stanley McChrystal's new career depends upon his uttering the conventional wisdom as it is understood by the inside the beltway elite. He is going to do that anyway because when they get to multi-star level, they are in the heart of that elite. In other words, he will be the media darling if he says the right thing which he is inclined to do anyway. It is good for his career.

    As far as his remarks about the fabled lethality of the 5.56 round, a lot of that comes from the initial effort to sell the M-16 to the military and can be directly traced to a pilot program that they ran in VN in 1962 or 63. They gave the weapon to some ARVN troops and used the results in promoting the weapon. The 'hit in the arm and the arm comes off' stuff came from there

    This is very well related in The Great Rifle Controversy, which was a great book by the way.

    http://www.amazon.com/Great-Rifle-Co...le+controversy

    Ken White at one time somewhere or other said that as far as lethality goes, a 30.06 tops a 7.62x51 which tops a 5.56x45. I figured he would probably know. If you want a really lethal bullet try a modern big or medium game cartridge in something like 7mm or 25.06. Or if you want to go back further, I've read that the old British .303 cartridge was very bad, a 174 grain bullet with an initial velocity of around 2500 fps with an unstable bullet that tumbled on impact.

    McChrystal sensed an opportunity to further his career and he grabbed it.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  7. #7
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Ken! There you are. Every time you go off the comments for a while I worry that something has happened to you.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  8. #8
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Been busy

    Selling house and getting ready to move to be near the kids to help us old folks cope. Whoever came up with that 'Golden Years' foolishness was a blithering idiot.

    Agree with your comments on system and Stanley. Sad. Bad...

    Guns and mag capacity aren't the problem, lack of familiarity with firearms among kids and an appreciation for the damage they can do and the state of mental health support are far greater issues. Can't stop nut jobs by limiting the tools, they'll just use another if the one they'd prefer isn't readily available.

    Media repetitive over hyping doesn't help. Nor do gratuitous specious comments by public figures.

  9. #9
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    lack of familiarity with firearms among kids and an appreciation for the damage they can do...are far greater issues.
    That is a very good observation. I read somewhere once (I wish I could find the ref) that kids who have had some kind of formal firearms training, and it doesn't have to be very extensive, are far less likely to abuse firearms, even in the criminal sense.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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