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Thread: Lone Wolves in the USA (new title)

  1. #41
    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    Always good to get some expert opinion (from the vid on David’s link, based on McChrystal’s remarks on .223):

    “…You get hit with a modern weapon and it will take your arm off….”
    “I know…”
    “…it won’t just leave a bullet hole….”
    “…we don’t need to be told that….”
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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    ONWARD

  2. #42
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    To be accurate he was a FIRED retired soldier who didn't have the common sense not to insult his own commander in chief.

  3. #43
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Not to mention

    Anyone who makes or supports the statement:
    “…You get hit with a modern weapon and it will take your arm off….”
    is likely not an expert...

    That's an ideological or political statement, not a factual or accurate comment.

    So a guy who got where he was by playing politics then left because he was playing politics is again entering a political fray. Smart. Real smart...

  4. #44
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Stanley McChrystal's new career depends upon his uttering the conventional wisdom as it is understood by the inside the beltway elite. He is going to do that anyway because when they get to multi-star level, they are in the heart of that elite. In other words, he will be the media darling if he says the right thing which he is inclined to do anyway. It is good for his career.

    As far as his remarks about the fabled lethality of the 5.56 round, a lot of that comes from the initial effort to sell the M-16 to the military and can be directly traced to a pilot program that they ran in VN in 1962 or 63. They gave the weapon to some ARVN troops and used the results in promoting the weapon. The 'hit in the arm and the arm comes off' stuff came from there

    This is very well related in The Great Rifle Controversy, which was a great book by the way.

    http://www.amazon.com/Great-Rifle-Co...le+controversy

    Ken White at one time somewhere or other said that as far as lethality goes, a 30.06 tops a 7.62x51 which tops a 5.56x45. I figured he would probably know. If you want a really lethal bullet try a modern big or medium game cartridge in something like 7mm or 25.06. Or if you want to go back further, I've read that the old British .303 cartridge was very bad, a 174 grain bullet with an initial velocity of around 2500 fps with an unstable bullet that tumbled on impact.

    McChrystal sensed an opportunity to further his career and he grabbed it.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  5. #45
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Ken! There you are. Every time you go off the comments for a while I worry that something has happened to you.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  6. #46
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Been busy

    Selling house and getting ready to move to be near the kids to help us old folks cope. Whoever came up with that 'Golden Years' foolishness was a blithering idiot.

    Agree with your comments on system and Stanley. Sad. Bad...

    Guns and mag capacity aren't the problem, lack of familiarity with firearms among kids and an appreciation for the damage they can do and the state of mental health support are far greater issues. Can't stop nut jobs by limiting the tools, they'll just use another if the one they'd prefer isn't readily available.

    Media repetitive over hyping doesn't help. Nor do gratuitous specious comments by public figures.

  7. #47
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    lack of familiarity with firearms among kids and an appreciation for the damage they can do...are far greater issues.
    That is a very good observation. I read somewhere once (I wish I could find the ref) that kids who have had some kind of formal firearms training, and it doesn't have to be very extensive, are far less likely to abuse firearms, even in the criminal sense.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  8. #48
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    Default Bullet Yaw

    All modern bullets have a tendency to "tumble" (yaw) when impacting something that will deflect them. The .303 British (which is very similar to the 30-06) had more yaw tendency because its lead base was relatively heavier than most comparable bullets. E.g., the difference in handling of a rear engine - rear drive vehicle vice a front engine - front drive vehicle. Basic Wiki stuff: Ballistic trauma and Yaw (rotation).

    Regards

    Mike

  9. #49
    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    I think the silly myths regarding evil military projectiles may have started with the dum-dum nonsense. And the myths just won’t die.

    The evilness of the 5.56 can perhaps be seen as America’s own equivalent to the dum dum myth.

    Here is another excellent write-up about dum-dum bullets, with some other interesting links on that page, some of which may help to highlight the (historical) contrast regarding gun culture in the UK versus US.
    Last edited by Kiwigrunt; 01-09-2013 at 10:37 PM. Reason: added some stuff
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    (Arthur Schopenhauer)

    ONWARD

  10. #50
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Creativity is what makes wolves dangerous

    A short FP article by Dr. Jeffrey Simon, I assume prompted by the Boston bombing and this passage caught my attention - citing their creativity:
    What makes lone wolves so dangerous is their ability to think outside the box. Since they operate by themselves, there is no group pressure or decision-making process that might stifle creativity. Lone wolves are free to act upon any scenario they can dream up. This freedom has resulted in some of the most imaginative terrorist attacks in history. For example, lone wolves were responsible for the first vehicle bombing (1920), major midair plane bombing (1955), hijacking (1961), and product tampering (1982), as well as the anthrax letter attacks in the United States (2001).
    Link:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article..._one?page=full and the author's website:http://www.futureterrorism.com/
    davidbfpo

  11. #51
    Council Member TV-PressPass's Avatar
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    Arg! I'm a member of Foreign Affairs but not Foreign Policy!

    Looks like an interesting article. But content behind a paygate makes me sad

  12. #52
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Before Westgate a Salt Lake City mall!

    A NYPost story 'Could the Kenya attack happen here? It did' and in:
    On the evening of Feb. 12, 2007, a young Muslim man walked into the Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City.....Yet the attack garnered few national headlines. Local media wrote it off as the act of a madman, parroting the quick conclusion of law enforcement. Officially, the FBI declared the mass shooting was not an act of terrorism.
    Link:http://nypost.com/2013/10/12/could-t...t-already-did/

    SWC have a number of threads on lone wolves, the Mumbai attack, Westgate and school massacres. I don't recall the Salt Lake City attack being mentioned.
    davidbfpo

  13. #53
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    The police and FBI investigation found no evidence of jihadist motivations in this case. Contrary to the New York Post report and some of the right wing blogosphere, video of the incident (which I've listened to) does not clearly record anyone shouting "allhu akbar" (the shouts sounded to me more like "come on out" by the responding police officers). None of the officers on scene near the suspect reported any such utterances by the suspect.

    The FBI report can be found here.
    They mostly come at night. Mostly.


  14. #54
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    The police and FBI investigation found no evidence of jihadist motivations in this case. Contrary to the New York Post report and some of the right wing blogosphere, video of the incident (which I've listened to) does not clearly record anyone shouting "allhu akbar" (the shouts sounded to me more like "come on out" by the responding police officers). None of the officers on scene near the suspect reported any such utterances by the suspect.
    So close to impartiality, but so far. Had you have left out the 'right wing' bit, I wouldn't have to point out the daily white-washing found in the main stream media.

    That aside, let's go on to the FBI report. Page 3, Pt I. para. 3 indicates that he was off on his own little Jihad, so the whole bit about what he or anyone else was yelling is completely and totally moot.


    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    I don't recall the Salt Lake City attack being mentioned.
    Are we highlighting this topic separate from the Terrorism in the US? Just curious as to why it's by it's lonesome.
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
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  15. #55
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Why a new thread, not a post?

    Adam G asked:
    Are we highlighting this topic separate from the Terrorism in the US? Just curious as to why it's by it's lonesome.
    I am following your advice on creating a new thread - when a significant item appears, as this is IMO - and so feeds into the Twitter SWC feed. You may have noticed it is my habit to merge short, stand-alone threads into existing, main threads. That is a hint what will happen soon.
    davidbfpo

  16. #56
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    I am following your advice on creating a new thread
    Thus joining the ranks of the Illuminati. Hear my golf applause.
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  17. #57
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    I don't think this has been caught before:
    The School Shooter:A Threat Assessment Perspective
    A FBI document, no clear publication date, but it refers to a 1999 SME conference and was Tweeted just after the Santa Barbara murders:http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...school-shooter
    davidbfpo

  18. #58
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    A footnote on Boston:

    Pols convinced Boston Marathon bombers received training and inspiration abroad

    : http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz331MRqCEa
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  19. #59
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    Default First Beheading in the U.S.?

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/po...homa-workplace

    Police: Woman beheaded at Oklahoma workplace

    "Yes, she was beheaded," Lewis told The Associated Press before a Friday news conference.
    While questioning the suspect's co-workers, investigators learned he had recently started trying to convert several employees to Islam, Lewis said. Moore police have asked the FBI to aid in the investigation and look into the man's background because of the nature of the attack, Lewis said.
    I'm sure there will be much to follow about this apparent lone wolf attack. There is an element of psychology that we seem to be missing, and one you have one attack, just a like a school shooting, there will likely be others.

  20. #60
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Stay calm

    Bill,

    The beheadings in Syria of three victims gained massive, global publicity and no doubt the worst imagery will remain online for a long time.

    As a Pakistani writer remindes us beheadings are not new:
    While IS sparked global outrage following the release of the recorded beheading of Foley, last year the TTP had released an even gorier video of militants playing football with decapitated heads of Pakistani police officers.
    I will post her commentary elsewhere in a moment as it relates to another topic:http://strifeblog.org/2014/09/26/the...the-caliphate/

    How many other murder victims in the USA have been beheaded, say in the last year?

    About a month ago a mentally deranged man beheaded an old lady in north London. No-one has commented since on his motive. First link is to her funeral:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29343759 and an earlier report:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29068391

    Leaving media hype aside I think it best to wait today before deciding what the man's motivation.
    davidbfpo

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