Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-10-2014 at 06:43 PM.
First John Schindler, ex-NSA, who was serving after 9/11, has a long column and I cite only one passage:Link:http://20committee.com/2014/12/10/ci...#comment-30998Let there be no misunderstanding. While CIA officials are now insisting, contra the SSCI report, that the special interrogation program was a success, having prevented terrorism — and there is no doubt their claims are largely correct, in a technical sense — from any big picture view, it was a disaster, having delivered minimal gains at vast and enduring political cost.
Second Nigel Inkster, ex-SIS (MI6) and now @ IISS. Again one passage:Link:http://www.iiss.org/en/iiss%20voices...r-torture-c673The entire global history of counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency shows that when governments are suddenly confronted by a seemingly existential threat they do not understand, they invariably overreact and resort to illiberal techniques to address the threat. This appears to be part and parcel of the human condition.
davidbfpo
Looking back it is amazing how quickly key institutions of the USA endorsed wide-spread torture and too which degree they tried to justify with 'legal' arguments. Considering the incredible investment into that whole aspect of the war against terrorism it is just astonishing how little mostly rational and objective arguments for the long-term benefit of the USA as a nation seem to have played. Insititutional imperatives, often self-interested actors, social and political pressure and other internal dynamics trumped them badly, with some good 'ol gut feeling thrown in at the highest decision levels. In the end the ever present ordinary men tortured on the orders of other ordinary ones sitting at their desks. Many around the world, US citiziens obviously included, already payed a high price and will many more will likely pay for those actions by the US and to a lesser degree by some of it's allies.
I feel mostly sadness, so much blood, effort and capital invested, so much pain inflicted and so much wasted for so little overall gain, if at all.
Last edited by Firn; 12-11-2014 at 11:53 AM.
... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"
General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935
In an article in Strife (from KIngs War Studies) a former US Army colonel asks questions that maybe fit here better than the partisan politics in the USA:There are important questions about how the program may have affected the conduct of the wars, including:
- To what extent did the perceptions and justifications of the program, to include the actual and perceived use of torture, affect our soldiers and their mission?
- To what extent did senior leaders’ public justifications of the program affect broader policy and strategy options in the conduct of the wars?
- To what extent did perceptions and justifications of the program promote an ends-justify-the-means mentality within the military in Afghanistan and Iraq?
- To what extent did the perceptions and justifications foster a belief in the military that such practices were acceptable and could be used by them in combat?
- To what extent did ‘false positives’ or erroneous reports, perhaps made out of fear of torture, lead to military actions that cost lives (civilian and military) and created unnecessary enemies?
- To what extent did the actual and perceived use of torture compromise the military’s moral standing in the eyes of the people in Afghanistan and Iraq? In what ways did that affect the mission and its prospects of success?
Link:http://strifeblog.org/2014/12/11/did...merican-lives/
davidbfpo
I just came across the latest global surveys by Pews. It is important to conserve a critical view, especially in some cases of some countries but it is still highly interesting stuff:
Despite all the reservations it is stark stuff to see where the US are on that chart and in which company...
Last edited by Firn; 06-24-2015 at 06:33 PM.
... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"
General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935
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