Torture versus collateral damage; the bigger evil?

[carl]

I tend to agree, since conservations with most people outside of the self-appointed political elite point to agreement on many of the moral issues we're discussing. However, we have a system that allows us to purge the politically elite and yet we re-elect the same batch of clowns repeatedly. Can we be both moral and apathetic?

I think we can. I don't think we have fully realized the impact of TV on our democratic structure. The Constitution was made when political discourse was conducted face to face or via the written word. Both of those methods allowed more detail and complexity to be presented. More importantly in my view is that both required the people to pay more attention to what was going on. They had to make an effort to follow a whole speech or discussion just as they had to make an effort to read a written argument.

TV has changed all that. It is easier to get most of what passes for news from the tube. It is normal enough that people will do what is easier. So it is normal for many people to make decisions based upon the ad or the sound bite. That is a huge difference from when the Constitution was written. Centuries of history went into the making of Constitution. TV has only been around for 60 years. I don't think we know how it is going to fully affect our politics yet.

Another thing, 220 years ago there wasn't all that much around in the way or entertainment compared to today. So politics was part of the entertainment available so I think for that reason people paid more attention to it. Nowadays, there are many more things easily available to catch your eye.

As for lowering taxes to raise revenues I'm in strong agreement with Fuchs. I have done a fair amount of reading on this topic, and I tend to believe that big business propaganda is pushing that line, but the numbers don't add up.

Ah but they do. People being people, it can't not be so. I figure if the tax rate were raised to 100% on somebody, tax revenue would soon be zero or close to it. If you lowered that rate, even a little, revenue would go up. If you lowered it a lot, revenue would skyrocket. If you take everything from somebody, they aren't going to work at all. That's normal. If you don't steal so much from them, they get more for working, so they work. People react to the situation.

This gets back to my previous point can we really be moral if we're apathetic? The political elite count on us being sheep, in military terms it gives them considerable freedom of movement.

Like I said, I think we can be moral and apathetic. That is bad because there is no check on the superzips, who have no moral foundation at all beyond what is good for the superzips.