Magical Realism and Information Operations

[slapout9]

Rob, if you get a chance watch the Steven Segal movie "Marked For Death".
He has to face a Jamaican gang that is powered by Voodoo! He finds an Anthropologist to learn how to take his power away(mostly symbolic). The movie is the usual cop sakie and kung fuey stuff but it makes some good points. The main bad guy has a twin brother and they often exploit this by appearing to be two places at once. That is why I wanted marct to expand on the concept of the power of symbols and the symbols of power. We need marct to talk more about this.
Rob, your dead own about learning symbols from the enemies point of view if we are ever going to exploit it properly.

[Stan]

Rob, Dead on the money. Why we constantly bear the ugly American tag. Few of us could care less about what makes the other angry or happy and why we do this and not that. Simple customs and culture. We don't need an anthropologist, but we do need to study a tad more.

In Central Africa, bald-headed people were considered all knowledgeable and known seniors (high ranking) were expected to hold the subordinate's hand while walking. You can imagine what you would look like in front of your peers as you walked up with a Zäirian General on you right side holding your hand (and a tight grip at that). Releasing before the senior permited would be taken as an outright insult. The good part is he would never hold your hand again, but the down side would be a total lack of communication and he would remember that even to his grave.

Estonia is a little less extreme, but have a very unique culture. You never shake hands more than once in a single day with the same person, and if he tries, you simply say we have already seen each other today. One never shake hands over a threshold and males rarely shake a female's hand (could piss off her boyfriend or husband). Instead of knocking on wood (which could be considered impolite and even disruptive) you (fake) spit over your left shoulder three times (similar to throwing salt over your left shoulder to warn away your enemy or preclude bad luck).

Ok, forgive the rambling, but you get the general idea. It doesn't take too long to get tuned-in and figure out what folks do and don't. This will pay itself back ten-fold and open doors.

Hell, you can even teach NCOs to do it
Regards, Stan

[marct]

Hi Folks,

I think this is one of the reasons why anthropology could be so valuable a field here and in other places. Culturally we have a hard time admitting to magical realism - to do so seems to make us less in our own eyes. Maybe that has to do with our Neo-Classical / Empirical roots.

Marc - you've already thought on this allot - hypothetically, how would one proceed from anthropological line of operation?? I think there is allot to be gained here, not just from a straight IO, but being able to climb inside your enemy's (and your ally's) head and see it from their point of view is incredibly useful.

Rob, Dead on the money. Why we constantly bear the ugly American tag. Few of us could care less about what makes the other angry or happy and why we do this and not that. Simple customs and culture. We don't need an anthropologist, but we do need to study a tad more.

You know, Rob, in some ways I definately agree with Stan here - you don't necessarily need an Anthropologist here, but you do need to study a bit more .

Okay, translation of that cryptic comment.....

The best way for 99.9% of people is to do exactly what you did, Rob: listen respectfully and ask questions (hey, that's what we do <wry grin>). As long as wyou don't pooh-pooh the custom or idea, no matter how silly it sounds to you, most people will think "hey, he's a good guiy, even if he can't tell a djinn from a shaitan".

As far as "using it", a la Cortez and his crowd, honestly, I wouldn't even try; you're too likely to screw it up and make bad mistakes that will come back to haunt you. Think of it this way; why fight someone on their own ground? If you want to involve magic (or magick) in this war, there are certainly precedents (take a look at Katherine Kurtz's Lammas Night for one of the best known precedents).

The way to "use" these beliefs is in two ways:

1. Find the people who already believe and operate within religious systems that use this type of belief. As far as the US forces are concerned, contact the Chaplaincy Office for the names of recognized Wiccan Priests and Priestesses, as well as the contacts for any Asatruar (I think there is an Asatruar crowd on one the the Navy aircraft carriers). For the Wiccans, see if you can find anyone who knows combat magic (it's a limited specialty) - maybe someone affiliated with the Fourth Face of the Goddess (if they are still around), or a solid Alexandro-Gardnerian coven. For the Asatruar folk, see if they will recommend someone who works on the Seitha path.
2. Use Anthropologists and Western Magicians, preferably the WMT crowd (there's some good ones in Toledo of all places) to work with local practitioners.

Sound nuts <wry grin>? I did tell you guys I did my MA on the institutionalization of modern witchcraft, didn't I?. Honestly, Rob, this is an area where you must have someone who believes in some type of the supernatural (according to Western rationalism), or who has a lot of experience in dealing with it.

You are right that this isn't about I/O operations - this is about "reality" as it is perceived. That economist article on Magical Realism was really interesting, and makes a good case in point. The djinn supporting the Northern Commander are still there. More importantly, the memebrs of the Northern Alliance still believe that their allies are Muslim Djinn, and that the Taliban are allied with their opponents (talk about a radically dualist view! Reminds me of the Zurvanite Heresy. Hmmmm, that gives me the germ of an idea...).

Look, one of the reasons why so many people in the Muslim world think that the US and the West are such hopeless naifs is the lack of belief in the spiritual world. "Crusader" is a spiritual, as well as historical, term. There is, however, a precedent inside Islam for non-Muslims to be allied spiritually with Muslims (ask your BTN CDR if he knows any of the tales of Moses and the Green Man [not sure about his Islamic name]). If we can mobilize some of this, it might be useful, although I do have fears about what the Immoral Minority..., sorry, Moral Majority, crowd would think about it.

Marc

[Stan]

Marc,
I would have to agree with you . I did my studies on the ground front and center, during social and political upheaval and 3 civil wars (10 years total)

How did I make it out ? Good question and I have an equally good answer: Knowledge of customs and culture, not reading some bible study class Bravo Sierra on pathetic symbols (Africans care about well-being and money, there are no jungle rules).

My neighbors homes flanked my house during the 2nd uprising and when I awoke, only my house was left untouched. Belgian females raped and males shot in the head. Both houses were totaled and the frames destroyed allowing the roof to come down (very typical African).

Only later would I learn that I was an acceptable white man amongst them who learned not only Lingala but culture and custom.

I'll wouldn't trade that day for any anthropology lesson on earth, as I still have the skin on my Alpha !

An education is great, so long as you know how to use it together with your common sense.

Regards, Stan

[Stan]

Marc, I hope you got something from that translation

[Rob Thornton]

Marc,
Wow. Honestly I'd never thought about it from the perspective of using other theologies or mystical spiritualism - that seems wrong to my western sense of things (I'll have to consider why I feel that way ). Honestly before last night, I did not know that a djinn was different from a demon or a ghost - one of our Shiite interpreters explained it to me and promised to explain more. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable trying to use it as an active sort of thing personally (although I'm not above advocating its exploration for possible uses) - for me its more of a passive sort of incorporation into understanding the environment which brings forth both the people I work with and those we work against.
I have not given this enough credit. I need to ask around some. The story of Moses and the Green man may be a good start. Is there any relation to Sir Gawayne and the Green Knight?

regards, Rob

[marct]

Marc,
Wow. Honestly I'd never thought about it from the perspective of using other theologies or mystical spiritualism - that seems wrong to my western sense of things (I'll have to consider why I feel that way ). Honestly before last night, I did not know that a djinn was different from a demon or a ghost - one of our Shiite interpreters explained it to me and promised to explain more. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable trying to use it as an active sort of thing personally (although I'm not above advocating its exploration for possible uses) - for me its more of a passive sort of incorporation into understanding the environment which brings forth both the people I work with and those we work against.

Honestly? Rob, that's the best reaction you could have. As my Craft informants would say, you are "grounded in reality" .

BTW, Djinn are very different from demons and ghosts. The Western equivalent of the Djin is the Nephilim or, hmmm, the "blood right" sort of captures it (the children / lineage of Nephilim and Humans). In Celtic terms, the Tuatha de Danaan or half breeds between the children of the stars and humans.

If you aren't into this type of stuff, stay away from it <wry grin>. The absolutely best thing you can do is to learn what other "mortals" learn, i.e. the general Muslim view of it, and not play around with it. There are groups and families in the West who know about this stuff (I've mentioned some earlier), but this isn't something for the psyops or I/O crowd to use - they would totally mess it up.

The real trick in all of this is that mystics of all traditions are actually closer to each other than they are to their co-religionists, as are the magicians in each tradition. A Wiccan combat magic specialist can probably understand AQ's people better than a theologian, and a practitioner of Seitha is more likely to understand your BTN CDR on exorcisms than most priests, or battalion Commanders, would <wry grin>.

Please take my advice on this, and don't try to do it yourself! Ask questions, learn about it, but don't try and use it in any active, I/O way.

I have not given this enough credit. I need to ask around some. The story of Moses and the Green man may be a good start. Is there any relation to Sir Gawayne and the Green Knight?

<wry grin>Hmmm, not really, although there are corrolaries. Most of the versions I have read are sitautions where the Green Man lnows more than Moses and Moses ends up going through all sorts of situations / trials until he finally realizes that the Green Man knows more.

In many Islamic tradiitons, Moses is the archetype for magical knowledge while the Green Man is the archetype for intuitive knowledge (at least that's my understanding of it which could well be wrong). The "formalism" of magic is inherent in Moses and the Jews, cf. comments in the Economist article on the power of Jewish magic (actually, they are the Seals of Soloman). This is contrasted with the "intuitive knowledge" of the Green Man who "knows" (in greek, it's "gnosis") the will of God.

I think that this is an area that is definately worth looking at, but I would urge extreme caution. In many ways, I would love to come over to <Mosul and chat with your BTN CDR <grin>. I suspect that we wopuld understand each other quite well .

Marc

[marct]

Hi Stan,

Marc,
I would have to agree with you . I did my studies on the ground front and center, during social and political upheaval and 3 civil wars (10 years total)

How did I make it out ? Good question and I have an equally good answer: Knowledge of customs and culture, not reading some bible study class Bravo Sierra on pathetic symbols (Africans care about well-being and money, there are no jungle rules).

LOLOL - if you ever want some good books on symbols, let me know. I do agree with your comment about "bible study class Bravo Sierra on pathetic symbols" - most of the time, they have no freakin' idea what they are talking about.

My neighbors homes flanked my house during the 2nd uprising and when I awoke, only my house was left untouched. Belgian females raped and males shot in the head. Both houses were totaled and the frames destroyed allowing the roof to come down (very typical African).

Only later would I learn that I was an acceptable white man amongst them who learned not only Lingala but culture and custom.

I'll wouldn't trade that day for any anthropology lesson on earth, as I still have the skin on my Alpha !

My "academic grandmother", Regna Darnell, once mentioned during an intense discussion of theory at 3am (just before the cheap Hunfgarian red wine ran out) that the true measure of an anthropologist was how they were accepted as a member of he community. Sounds like you got a PhD in a trial by fire <wry grin>.

Classes, lessons, lectures are meanngless for those who won't hear or understand. I've taught Anthro classes where I have despaired of finding anyone in the class who could understand. Conversely, I've met a lot of people who are "naturals" (you and Rob come to mind). All any "class" is good for is giving people an interpretive framework for their own experiences.

An education is great, so long as you know how to use it together with your common sense.

Marc, I hope you got something from that translation

LOL. Yup . And I do agree with you on the value of an education.

Marc

[Rob Thornton]

Please take my advice on this, and don't try to do it yourself! Ask questions, learn about it, but don't try and use it in any active, I/O way.

Marc, no worries - I'm not a "Do I cut the blue wire with the red stripe, or red wire with the blue stripe?" kinda guy. When I get done with job this I am gonna do some real reading on it though. I've gotta feeling in my next gig it might be helpful - I'm more interested in the background stuff though that could help me understand its place in the things that make peoples what/who they are. Its hard to explain; its kind of like white noise, but white noise that means something. Ex. knowing that about the BN CDR, and seeing the other IA at the table and my interpreter accept it as if it were as solid as the table we ate off of told me something, but damned if I know what it was (aside from the obvious). The other 2 Americans at the table (a Mormon and a N.Carolinian Methodist) were more or less dismissive. Maybe its because I've been some strange places as odd times, maybe its just disposition.

What bothers me right now is that during our cultural trianing with the countless useless things that were taught, nobody thought to tell us how solid and real things like Djinn are to the people here - its like they ommited it by default (sort of a "I don't beleive in them so how could it possibly be relevant to another culture"). It doesn't matter a stitch if I believe in them or not - but it does matter that they do - and somehow it goes beyond not mocking their culture, it goes to understanding who they are - which allows me to understand why someone might do something, or would never do something. Analysis done on a false or bias set of assumptions is largely useless except perhaps in this case for the persons you are trying to understand.

As I look out into the possible places where a person could wind up these days (not just in terms of where material interests might put a person, but identifying the conditions that might allow for an organization like AQ to exploit and set up shop)- border states along the Caspian, any of the "stans" or continental interiors where clans and tribes are the rule, and the religious practices are combination of major movements that are still grounded in local supersticion and supernatural, I'm feeling more then a little ignorant. This war (GWOT in what ever stage and name it morphs into) has so much to do with people, and people are the sum of their experiences and beliefs (however I think their actions are something to do with the context of their environment)
Regards, Rob

[Stan]

Hey marc,
Forgive my NCO humor. I'm not sure where I got most of it from

I actually appreciate the little education I do have. By no means even close to yours. Armed with a Bachelor's in Applied Science, I made my way to Africa. Logic to this day drives my entire life. Whether in the garage, kitchen or in the field and that at times permits me to be a real Delta Hotel. I even share it with others

Unfortunately, I never took any antrho classes. Perhaps they may have assisted me during my tours. Perhaps not. I had some very good Officers and NCOs during my Army life and they taught me to keep my skinny butt down and live another day. Those fine folks are with me today - fond memories, etc.

I tried to find Tom and ended up here, so there you go. I enjoy this forum and the posts that you folks take time to write. Really

In closing, I agree
Ask and pay attention, you'd be surprised what you end up with. Be it a former NCO or Officer, or an Anthro class.

Regards, Stan

[jcustis]

I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable trying to use it as an active sort of thing personally (although I'm not above advocating its exploration for possible uses) - for me its more of a passive sort of incorporation into understanding the environment which brings forth both the people I work with and those we work against.

I think marct is dead on in his advisory against looking to employ it. That was what screwed up the IO/PSYOP product I mentioned earlier. the Arabic text of "we can see you and find you" (paraphrase) was laid over a watermark of a pair of dark (almost hooded) eyes, and that cast an omniprescent tint on things that made the average Iraqi get spooked/confused over out intentions.

[wondertk]

Let's not forget about "legal anthropology" in contending our enemies. Islam does not consist of just one or two holy books such as the Koran and Hadith. It consists of thousands of books and multiple interpretations of Islamic over time and space--very similar to rabbinical law, in that respect. Therefore, I suspect that competing sects in Iraq will have different intepretations of oral and written contracts and other types of agreements, depending on their version of Islamic law. In fact, puritanical Shias will have different interpretations of legal language than their non-puritanical brethren. In turn, one must be very careful in negotiating truces or other types of agreements among community groups.

[marct]

Good points, Terri. Unfortunately, what I have read of "legal Anthropology" doesn't really inspire me with great hope . It may be better to get a bunch of old style Rabbis and Biblical Scholars (Comp Rel type) together for that aspect of it.

Marc

[wondertk]

Marc,

You are right about legal anthropology. But I think your concerns about legal anthropology may apply to all fields of study in anthropology in that there is a pervasive animus toward helping out government and military. You could argue thereunto that anthropology has a stake in disinformation and deception. There are few anthropologists I would trust.

Bringing in Islamic legal scholars is a good idea, except that trustworthy ones are scarce and expensive.

I think that you should form a special academic advisory consulting firm/think-tank for the armed services rooted in your views about anthropologythe conduct, and prosecution of small wars.

I first started considering the legal anthropology of Islamists when I began studying the case of confessed terrorist conspirator Sami Al-Arian in Tampa. Part of his alleged front enterprise activity involved partnering a think-tank he had founded with USF. This was a legal partnership agreement. Prior to it, key people at USF had been given documents with some rather strange cultural data/language in it about the funding source, another think-tank, of the partnership with USF.

The language clearly shows how puritanical and monolithically doctrinal the views of Sami and his think-tank were. He and his other associates in the think-tank should have been probed further about their views and expectations, but evidently were not.

A Muslim to non-Muslim agreement is quite different in Islamic law than it is in Western law. When you sign a contract with puritanical Muslims, you must be careful because you might be signing a contract with Muslims who believe that a pact with non-Muslims renders non-Muslims subservient to the tenets of Islamic law.

[marct]

Hi Terri,

You are right about legal anthropology. But I think your concerns about legal anthropology may apply to all fields of study in anthropology in that there is a pervasive animus toward helping out government and military. You could argue thereunto that anthropology has a stake in disinformation and deception. There are few anthropologists I would trust.

Now you know I could never use that argument .

I think that you should form a special academic advisory consulting firm/think-tank for the armed services rooted in your views about anthropologythe conduct, and prosecution of small wars.

When I started my consulting company six years ago, I had been toying with getting into the "designer cult" business - seemed like a growth industry . Maybe I should go for that most modern of policy cults - the think tank .

A Muslim to non-Muslim agreement is quite different in Islamic law than it is in Western law. When you sign a contract with puritanical Muslims, you must be careful because you might be signing a contract with Muslims who believe that a pact with non-Muslims renders non-Muslims subservient to the tenets of Islamic law.

A good point, and all the more reason why we should have a number of Muslim legal scholars involved in this entire campaign. Honestly, I'm surprised that USF agreed to that type of "obscurity" in their funding.

Marc