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Thread: What Are You Currently Reading? 2007

  1. #41
    Council Member Sargent's Avatar
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    All --

    My husband just read David Danelo's Blood Stripes. I thought you might enjoy his comments.



    So in the beginning of the book the author spends some time giving something of a primer on the Marine Corps. Its interesting to read because I've never really stepped back to think about some of the nuances and details. For example he talks about the really junior guys (Pvt-LCpl) and says that basically there are four groups: boots, outcasts, former LCpls, then the giant mass that is the LCpl. Boots are obvious, and as he interestingly noted, are generally viewed as communal property. Everyone else belongs to a particular fireteam / squad / platoon / company, and even if you outrank someone you can't just grab them and tell them what to do. Boots are the exception. Outcasts are those individuals who are former LCpls and were busted down for doing something really stupid or un-Marine like. They aren't boots, but are treated somewhat like them, though they will often try to bully the actual boots. Former LCpls are the guys who were busted down for less critical issues -- usually underage drinking or similar. They are definitely not boots, and retain some respect. They will boss around the boots when they are lumped in with them. Then there is the mass of LCpls. "Being a LCpl is like being caught in a real-life version of Lord of the Flies. Boots survive by doing what they are told. LCpls excel through alpha male characteristics of strength, cleverness, skill, and force of personality. LCpls who possess greater leadership ability ... are promoted into more senior positions, such as SAW gunners. The strongest among them become fire team leaders. They are given omnipotent power by the gods of the Marine Corps over the lives of three other Marines".

    He goes on to deconstruct other areas as well. He talks about the umbiquitous "who you with?" question and how the response is almost always just two number (i.e. 3/11) and what that means in the Marine Corps.

    There are other areas he goes into, but basically I think he does a pretty good job giving people an introduction into the background and mindset of Marines.

    The area I found most interesting is his treatment of the Marine Corps view of Order/Disorder. He talks about how the Marine Corps embraces both incredible detailed Order and fully chaotic Disorder. More specifically how individuals, especially leaders, have to walk a balance between the two while paying respect to both. He brings up the standard rank and file Order down to every squad leader has a list of every item each of his Marines has and their serial numbers. The list go on up the chain, so every platoon / company etc has some massive amount of detail - trying to establish Order. Operations are planned, briefed, rehearsed, prepared for, inspected, etc -- again trying to establish Order. Then however there is the ultimate Disorder - combat - which Marines seem to be able to excel in, and which the Marine Corps tells Marines they have to be able to operate in. On top of that leaders have to establish their own balance between the two for everything. Follow every rule and you'll be know as an unimaginative, uninspired robot and Marines will think less of you and not want to follow you. Flaunt every rule and you'll be know as a loose cannon and not a team player. Marines will think less of you and not want to follow you.

    One example -- any squad leader worth his salt will not let another squad leader tell his Marines what to do (except for the communal boots for things like working parties). This, he says, is adherence to order. Trying to make things and authority clear and unambiguous. However that same squad leader, faced with a disciplinary problem within his squad, will shun the orderly and established disciplinary enforcement process. He will prefer, and be more respected for, not following the rules and coming up with his own methods. He will even be given at least tacit approval by the chain of command to do this. In fact, it is almost viewed as a failure to resort to the orderly and established process.

    On a broader level he talks about the extreme order and discipline the Marine Corps is known for. Then he talks about how the Marine Corps also prides itself on an 'expeditionary mindset' -- embracing the disorder, and basically saying "just drop us off and we'll figure things out". This leads to things like in 29Palms - hey I need a new radiator hose for my HMMWV. Well I'll put in a request for one, but I know they won't get one here soon, so I'll see if I can scrounge one off of that old truck they dropped off for use as an arty target.

    I'm rambling, but I thought it was quite interesting. The Marine Corps own yin/yang concept. I know you think I'm such a big rule follower,* but you should know that in the field I'm known to be more on the disorder side. I always get into a little trouble for being too much of a cowboy about things. Even here. (The latest was not wearing a cover on Camp Fallujah. We come in in full combat attire. We de-gear and walk the 50 yards from our vehicles to the chow hall. I don't see a point in covers, and we don't always know when we are coming in so sometimes we don't have them with us. It irritates the hell out of people because "its a base regulation to wear covers blah blah blah" -- I've been talked to a couple times about me or my guys not wearing covers).

    One last interesting tie in. He knows how Marines love the Spartans and their view of things. He brings up that the order/disorder and rules/expeditionary mindset is similar to what the Spartans tried to instill. He brings up the Spartan agoge - the military training all Spartan males had to attend starting at age 7. At the agoge the boys were not given enough food, but they were also drilled on the importance of laws and rules. The Spartans intentionally made it so the boys had to steal food to survive (or at least to thrive in the agoge) even though it was specifically against Spartan law (the thing they were training to protect). The Spartans tried to instill respect for the orderly, but also a resourcefulness and ability to operate within disorder.

    * Actually, I chafe because I know that he is a big rule breaker on behalf of his Marines and his mission, but when it comes to his own existence as an individual within the institution he can be a little too "this is the way they do it and I can't change that."

  2. #42
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    Just finished reading Cobra II and Imperial Grunts. Just started one from Tom Odom's reading list...The True Believer by Eric Hoffer. So far a very interesting read. Next up is Shake Hands with the Devil by Dallaire, also from Tom's list.

    Not a book, but extremely good (and from Tom's list) I also read T.E. Lawrence's The Evolution of a Revolt.

    Brian

  3. #43
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    Currently re-reading Patrick Seale's The Struggle for Syria. Last read it over a decade ago and its been sitting on the shelf. I picked it up again because I just finished reading The Great Syrian Revolt and the Rise of Arab Nationalism by Michael Provenance. Seale's book covers the period following that covered in Provenance's, so I figured I'd go through it again to tie the threads together....

  4. #44
    Council Member Culpeper's Avatar
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    "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way?"
    "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"


  5. #45
    Council Member Culpeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhorse View Post
    I recently read John Stewart's (et al) America.

    T. Jefferson, great work on the forward. That was sheer & epic genius. That and the paragraph summarizing the working of Congress were Pullitzer material.
    I have a copy of that book. My sister in San Francisco sent it to me for Christmas. She gets all her news from John Stewart. She seems very happy. No joke.
    "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way?"
    "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"


  6. #46
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    I just finished Brave New War and recently before that, My Life Among the Deathworks by Philip Rieff, which is long and depressing indictment against modern anti-culture, written by a member of the culture establishment (professor of art and sociology IIRC at UVa, recently deceased). Unfortunately Rieff spent too much time in the belly of the beast, and his writing has much of the stilted, somewhat disjointed, jargon-ridden style found amongst po-mo culture types, but it was a rewarding read nonetheless. I will post something about it when I have the time/ energy. Probably join the BNW discussion at some point, too...

    Currently reading Jesus of Nazareth by Pope Benedict.
    He cloaked himself in a veil of impenetrable terminology.

  7. #47
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    Default Pulling out the classics

    Just re-read The Ugly American. I still have my 55cent original copy. Lederer & Burdick use irony in the title, of course, because the chapter on the "ugly American" is actually about a true hero, while many of the beautiful people are really the ugly ones. Military comes off pretty well.

    Gotta re-read Hofer now that Tom has dredged that out of my memory.

  8. #48
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    The Little Green Book: Sayings of Ayatollah Khomeini

  9. #49
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    Mostly focused on Master's degree related reading:

    Stonewall in the Valley by Robert Tanner
    Maurice's Strategikon translated by George Dennis
    Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204 by John Haldon
    Storm of Steel by Mary Habeck
    The Training of Officers by Martin Van Creveld (have read this many times)
    Technology and War by Martin Van Creveld
    The Russian Way of War, Operational Art 1904-1940 by Richard Harrison
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

  10. #50
    Council Member Culpeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski View Post
    Mostly focused on Master's degree related reading:

    Stonewall in the Valley by Robert Tanner
    Maurice's Strategikon translated by George Dennis
    Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204 by John Haldon
    Storm of Steel by Mary Habeck
    The Training of Officers by Martin Van Creveld (have read this many times)
    Technology and War by Martin Van Creveld
    The Russian Way of War, Operational Art 1904-1940 by Richard Harrison
    I once read, "I Rode with Stonewall"; by Henry K. Douglas. It is interesting due to the fact that he wrote in basically real time and doesn't describe battles necessarily by the names we are now familiar with.
    "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way?"
    "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"


  11. #51
    Council Member LawVol's Avatar
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    I'm ashamed to admit that I'm only just now reading Nagl's book. Next in the queue is Patrolling Shanghai (thanks Slapout) and Patrolling Baghdad. If anyone has read the Baghdad book and has any insight, please pass it along especially if you've done the stuff is discusses.

    Thoughts for the future: The Education of Henry Adams and The History of the Peloponnesian War.
    -john bellflower

    Rule of Law in Afghanistan

    "You must, therefore know that there are two means of fighting: one according to the laws, the other with force; the first way is proper to man, the second to beasts; but because the first, in many cases, is not sufficient, it becomes necessary to have recourse to the second." -- Niccolo Machiavelli (from The Prince)

  12. #52
    Council Member nichols's Avatar
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    My night time reading is currently divided with two books;

    The First Salute by Barbara Tuckman
    The Burning of Washington by Antony Pitch

    My daytime hip pocket book;

    What went wrong by Bernard Lewis

    My last roadtrip book was Imperial Grunts.

  13. #53
    Council Member Stu-6's Avatar
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    Currently working onThe Modern Middle East by Mehran Kamrava, so far it is as solid and very readable work dealing with the political history of the region since WWI. Next on the to read pile The Terrorist of Iraq by Malcolm W. Nance.

  14. #54
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    Default Finishing

    Martin van Creveld's The Changing Face of War. The last couple of chapters would be of particular interest, despite the harshly critical tone, to SWC members.

    Next up will be either Caesar by Adrian Goldsworthy and/or Boot's War Made New.

  15. #55
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    I recently finished Michael Oren's "Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East: 1776-Present" and highly recommend it. Currently, I'm just now finishing up John Ferling's "Almost A Miracle: The American Victory in the War of Independence." His "A Leap in the Dark" covering the same period was great, and this is definitely not disappointing. Next in the queue are Phillip Bobbitt's "The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace, and the Course of History" and Timothy P.Wickham-Crowley's "Guerrillas and Revolution in Latin America: A Comparitive Study of Insurgents and Regimes Since 1956."
    Semper Fidelis

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
    Next in the queue are Phillip Bobbitt's "The Shield of Achilles: War, Peace, and the Course of History"
    I really need to finish that. Very insightful and interesting book, but a bit long on the explication, perhaps. Or, I have the attention span of a 10 year old...
    He cloaked himself in a veil of impenetrable terminology.

  17. #57
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    I get to read "Strategy" by Liddell Hart this week, joy to the world.
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

  18. #58
    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by LawVol View Post
    I'm ashamed to admit that I'm only just now reading Nagl's book. Next in the queue is Patrolling Shanghai (thanks Slapout) and Patrolling Baghdad. If anyone has read the Baghdad book and has any insight, please pass it along especially if you've done the stuff is discusses.

    Thoughts for the future: The Education of Henry Adams and The History of the Peloponnesian War.
    I was ashamed to read Nagl's book as well. At least that's what I keep telling him.

  19. #59
    Council Member Mark O'Neill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski View Post
    I get to read "Strategy" by Liddell Hart this week, joy to the world.
    At least it is far easier read than Clausewitz! Do yourself a favour and follow it up with Andre Beaufre's An Introduction to Strategy I think they make a good tandem read.

    Cheers

    Mark

  20. #60
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    Thanks Mark, will do.
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

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