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Thread: Dutch state liable for three Srebrenica deaths

  1. #41
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    Default V's mind through Caesar's words ?

    All I know is Caesar:

    LXXXVIII. ... Vercingetorix, having convened a council the following day, declares, "That he had undertaken that war, not on account of his own exigencies, but on account of the general freedom; and since he must yield to fortune, he offered himself to them for either purpose, whether they should wish to atone to the Romans by his death, or surrender him alive." Ambassadors are sent to Caesar on this subject. He orders their arms to be surrendered, and their chieftains delivered up. He seated himself at the head of the lines in front of the camp, the Gallic chieftains are brought before him. They surrender Vercingetorix, and lay down their arms. Reserving the Aedui and Arverni, [to try] if he could gain over, through their influence, their respective states, he distributes one of the remaining captives to each soldier, throughout the entire army, as plunder.

    XC.--After making these arrangements, he marches into the [country of the] Aedui, and recovers that state. To this place ambassadors are sent by the Arverni, who promise that they will execute his commands. He demands a great number of hostages. He sends the legions to winter quarters; he restores about twenty thousand captives to the Aedui and Arverni; he orders Titus Labienus to march into the [country of the] Sequani with two legions and the cavalry, and to him he attaches Marcus Sempronius Rutilus; he places Caius Fabius, and Lucius Minucius Basilus, with two legions in the country of the Remi, lest they should sustain any loss from the Bellovaci in their neighbourhood. He sends Caius Antistius Reginus into the [country of the] Ambivareti, Titus Sextius into the territories of the Bituriges, and Caius Caninius Rebilus into those of the Ruteni, with one legion each. He stations Quintus Tullius Cicero, and Publius Sulpicius among the Aedui at Cabillo and Matisco on the Saone, to procure supplies of corn. He himself determines to winter at Bibracte. A supplication of twenty days is decreed by the senate at Rome, on learning these successes from Caesar's despatches.
    Caesar treated the Aedui and Arverni differently; and that seems to have worked in their home territories.

    Regards

    Mike

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    This is a real gem!

    Great find.

    Seems to be from 1989... I wonder how many of the findings have been implemented?

  3. #43
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    Question Question to Viewers

    Same as Mark's:

    Seems to be from 1989... I wonder how many of the findings have been implemented?
    Regards

    Mike

  4. #44
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    Default The matter of surrender...

    Further to earlier discussions I came across the following book amongst a pile of reduced price books at a local book shop.

    Outnumbered Outgunned Undeterred: Twenty Battles Against All Odds

    Throughout history men and women have fought, endured, and sometimes emerged victorious though the odds were against them. What conditions must exist to enable relatively small or weak forces to challenge and even overcome the strong? Here are twenty historical examples, from 1777 to the present, that reveal both the common themes and the exceptional aspects of those achievements.
    It is in fact the other side of the coin but it will contribute to the volume of knowledge on the subject.

  5. #45
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Remember and ask questions

    An understandably bitter article, not about the Dutch, though they get a mention, 'Srebrenica: the world fails, but never one’s own government' and sub-titled:
    There are cogent reasons – international, historical and domestic to Britain – why this year's Srebrenica massacre commemorations are different, and beg painful, difficult questions that demand answers.
    Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eur...own-government
    davidbfpo

  6. #46
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    Default More good news...

    Dutch state found liable in deaths of more than 300 men in Srebrenica massacre

    The Netherlands is liable for the deaths of more than 300 men who were taken from a Dutch compound in the Bosnian town of Srebrenica in July 1995, during the Bosnian war, a Dutch court ruled Wednesday.

    The Dutch peacekeepers failed to protect the men -- most of whom were killed after they were taken away by Bosnian Serb forces -- and the state should compensate the families of the men for their loss, the District Court in The Hague said.
    To the original 3, 300 can now be added. This is progress. The court stopped short of finding the Dutchbat (garbage in uniform) liable for the 8,000 deaths.

    The Dutch state will have to compensate the families of those murdered and one hopes that its hurts, but what of the cowards themselves? Karremens himself? Will they be prosecuted?

  7. #47
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    From FP:

    When the Blue Helmets Are to Blame

    The key to this judgement is as follows:

    Last week's ruling followed that very narrow precedent. It did not hold the government responsible for the deaths of most Bosnian Muslim men whom Bosnian Serb forces captured and executed. Nor did it pin on the government the broad failure of the peacekeeping force to defend the town, which the U.N. Security Council had designated a "safe area" two years earlier, in 1993. But the judges did find the government liable for the peacekeepers' decision to deliver Muslims under their protection to Serb forces. Of those handed over, around 300 were executed. The court found that "cooperation with the deportation ... of the able-bodied male refugees who had sought refuge at the compound [was] an unlawful act for which the State is liable." It concluded that the Dutch troops "must have been aware of the serious danger of genocide" if the men were handed to Serb forces.
    The Dutch sadly do not have a good military reputation (which is an understatement). Recently came across this in Canadian Robert Semrau's book:

    The Taliban Don't Wave

    Quote:

    We continued on and drove down the highway until we rolled into a Brit base called FOB Bastion, just north of the Lash. (Major) Hobbles and I walked into the command post to let them know we were there. We met a small Dutch major who explained they knew exactly where the enemy was, pointed their position out to us on a large map, and then politely asked if we would be so kind as to go and take care of them. Hobbles and I looked at each other, and then stared at the Dutch major.
    “And what's wrong with your soldiers? Hobbles asked.
    “Well," he started to murmur, “if we go, we might get hurt, and so—"
    “Holy crap," I snapped. “What about us? It doesn't matter if we get hurt?"
    Hobbles muckled onto me and we quickly left the CP.
    Wow—did that really happen?
    A pattern starting to develop?

  8. #48
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    A new book is out and The Guardian's article, on the 20th anniversary, states:
    How Britain and the US decided to abandon Srebrenica to its fate New research reveals that Britain and the US knew six weeks before massacre that enclave would fall – but they decided to sacrifice it in their efforts for peace
    Link:http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-massacre-1995
    davidbfpo

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