Giap obituary: winner of three small wars

[John T. Fishel]

Carl, on this one we are in total agreement. I would only add that where we have supported insurgents, they have won when we were sufficiently steadfast. Two examples: Nicaragua - the contras (although it was very close in regard to our being sufficiently steadfast), and Afghanistan in ousting the Taliban.

I would note that one of the statistically significant Factors/dimensions in the studies Manwaring and I have done is External Support to the Insurgents. (It was however significant at the 0.1 level which is not the common cutoff point, that being 0.05.) Still, it is one of the more powerful explanatory dimensions of the SWORD Model.

Cheers

JohnT

[davidbfpo]

Not an obituary, more some remarks and this sentence by Giap explains why:

You and I should discuss a future where our countries are not enemies but friends.

Link:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle

[Compost]

( Manufactured quote commonly attributed to Winston Churchill. )

Reading anything attributed to Vo Nguyen Giap may provide insight into his thoughts, behaviour and supposed accomplishments and into what he wanted other people to believe. But he was more a doctrinaire communist than historian and hence very different to Churchill who managed to speak and write objectively on historical aspects including some in which he was directly involved.

Not sure just which small war victories can be attributed to Giap. But destruction of the Viet Cong in 1968 could be described as a victory for his latter-day Viet Minh.

A usefully objective study of Giap and his brutish part in the history of Indo-China might be completed by a British or better still by a Canadian historian. Anything authored, compiled or otherwise approved by a Vietnamese, Thai, Laotian, Korean, Japanese, French, Chinese, Cambodian, Australasian or American is likely to be degraded by bias.

[John T. Fishel]

Compost, your comment really is a nonsequitur. Just because a writer is biased does not mean that he or she cannot control the bias. There are at least two ways of doing this/ (1) State your bias openly - this is more or less what the author of Hanoi's War does. We know where she is coming from and can take it into account. (2) Accept your bias and do your best to find proof that you are wrong. If you can't prove your bias false, then it stands until someone does. Edward Miller does this pretty well in his history of the Diem regime.

Thus, while you are correct that certain nationalities are likely to have a particular bias, they actually may have a different one. Canadians, for one, are hardly monolithic about the Vietnam War and the Indochina War that preceded it. Some, of course, will see it from their perspective on the ICC but others will see it from other perspectives.

JohnT

[Compost]

JohnT.
Vo Nguyen Giap was a nasty piece of work. But he was apparently human enough to want a generally favourable reputation carried into the future. And during his later years he was probably clever enough to engage in more and more subtle manipulation.

Any historian from a country that ‘ warred or policed ’ unsuccessfully in Indo-China is prone to bias as for example supposing that North Vietnamese successes were generally gained by merit rather than conceded by ineptitude. The British were there only briefly and the Canadians not at all.

It is preferable to avoid predictable bias. Hence, my opinion regarding the period during which Giap was a major or minor or inactive participant is that a regional history authored, compiled or otherwise approved by a Canadian is least “ likely to be degraded by bias ”.

[John T. Fishel]

Compost, there were 3 members of the ICC established by the 1954 Geneva conference ending the Indochina war: Canada, India, and Poland. Of the 3, only India was more or less neutral. Poland was defacto an ally of N VN (DRV) while Canada was an ally and supporter of the US and RVN. Poland was a conduit for intel to the DRV while Canada was the same for the US. The ICC - with all 3 members - was engaged throughout the Vietnam War and only dissolved by the 1973 Paris Accords.

I say again: You will not find an unbiased historian but you will find good ones who can and do discipline their biases on all sides.

JohnT