CAR Central African Republic: Fragile, failed and forlorn

[carl]

Mike:

The way I always heard it pronounced was mundele, as in mun (rhymes with bun) de (as in de in de Bears) lay.

[KingJaja]

jmm99,

The first stage is for Africans to discuss the internal political architecture of their nations. This happened in the Republic of Benin - and that nation has been stable ever since.

In nations like CAR, a combination of French meddling, hasty formation & a history of mutual distrust makes this process difficult - but it must proceed.

Nations like US prioritise outward signs of stability and elections over the less sexy & more important & difficult work of national cohesion & nation building.

Africa's problems are for Africans to solve. My point is that after the seemingly endless cycle of violence and external intervention - at a certain point, some unstable states will either fall apart permanently or work out an indigenous solution to their teething problems.

CAR for example, has bifurcated - it a essentially a "Christian" enclave in the South and a much smaller "Muslim" enclave in the North. No amount of elections will change that essential reality. And international community is wasting time by impeding the process of formation of two independent separate states in that part of the World.

In my native Nigeria, we are preparing for a National Dialogue, a three month discussion on what different ethnic nationalities want from the Nigerian state. This goes beyond mere elections, Africa's artificial states have flawed foundations and the best way forward is for locals to proactively discuss these challenges and build a state that caters to their needs (not a mere ex-colonial administrative unit).

[jmm99]

As Stan will tell you, I can't pronounce English - or, at least, I have an "odd" accent ! So, perhaps, "mndele" would be a better way to write it - leaving the initial vowel sound up for grabs.

However, since it seems both of us are easily launched on insatiable quests for knowledge (not a bad thing), I've now looked at a couple of Lingala online translators - note that I was using the word in the plural ("a bunch of mindele" and "the mindele colonialists") - and here we go:

translation / dictionary Lingala - English:

mindele
exists as the plural of singular "mondele", "mundele"

mondele, noun, pl. mindele (class 3 / 4 : mo- (mu-) / mi- (objets))
mundele, noun, pl. mindele (class 3 / 4 : mo- (mu-) / mi- (objets)) (kin)

white (white man)
zombie
European-style person
person with light skin color
whale

FREELANG Lingala-English and English-Lingala online dictionary:

Searching for: white (4 results)
white mondele
A white car Motuka ya mpembe
white mpmbe
white? pembe?

and

Searching for: whites (1 results)
whites mindele

So, it seems that both of us are correct.

-----------------------------
KingJaja:

Africa's problems are for Africans to solve. My point is that after the seemingly endless cycle of violence and external intervention - at a certain point, some unstable states will either fall apart permanently or work out an indigenous solution to their teething problems.

CAR for example, has bifurcated - it a essentially a "Christian" enclave in the South and a much smaller "Muslim" enclave in the North. No amount of elections will change that essential reality. And international community is wasting time by impeding the process of formation of two independent separate states in that part of the World.

In my native Nigeria, we are preparing for a National Dialogue, a three month discussion on what different ethnic nationalities want from the Nigerian state. This goes beyond mere elections, Africa's artificial states have flawed foundations and the best way forward is for locals to proactively discuss these challenges and build a state that caters to their needs (not a mere ex-colonial administrative unit).

Yes (we've discussed this before).

But, why didn't you say that from the start - rather than playing the old "big bad colonialists; run, run, the white giants are coming" card ?

That era ended 50 years ago - despite Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner - and the modern-day "Rolands" are not from the "Land of the Midnight Sun". It's time that both Africans and Europeans understood that. You and I long ago agreed that the US should not be a major African player.

Regards

Mike

PS: And, there's still the Roland game - animated Zevon !!

[carl]

Mike:

Mndele and mindele work for me.

In Congo anyway I think they use the word for a westerner of any color. At least that was what a black American former Peace Corps worker told me once. He was drunk and headed for a cliff at night and the people in the village were yelling that they were going to lose their mndele.

[jmm99]

In the case of the African-American PCer (singular), the Lingala online translators give either mundele or mondele (one "white" person; interesting that the second meaning is "zombie").

The distinction between mu an mo may something like the name Mattila in the Copper Country - usually pronounced Mat-tila (as in "mat" or the first name Matt), but among the "true Finns" pronounced as Mut-tila.

The singular form "mundele" has "dominated" the discussions at SWC (9 posts, soon to be 10) going back to a Brit in 2008, but mostly by Stan and you.

The "Roland Game" was a new one for me. It has an inaccuracy in its geography; having Roland flying from Norway to Biafra - located in Northwest Nigeria !! (0:30) - as opposed to:



The real Biafra should be close to (or is) KingJaja country.

In any event, the Roland song has kept growing on me since Dayuhan sorta suggested it as SWC's theme song. Turns out it was Zevon's last performance before he died of cancer.

Roland's song doesn't fit the usual American solution to foreign "problem children" - which boils down to "Send Lawyers, Guns and Money" ... "The $hit has hit the fan." - Samantha Power's call to the WH after meeting the troops.

Regards

Mike

[JMA]

As Stan will tell you, I can't pronounce English - or, at least, I have an "odd" accent ! So, perhaps, "mndele" would be a better way to write it - leaving the initial vowel sound up for grabs.

However, since it seems both of us are easily launched on insatiable quests for knowledge (not a bad thing), I've now looked at a couple of Lingala online translators - note that I was using the word in the plural ("a bunch of mindele" and "the mindele colonialists") - and here we go:

Ok then:

White man in local languages around here - South and east coast:

Umlungu – South Africa (isiZulu)
Mzungu – Malawi (ChiChewa) and Kenya (kiSwahili)
Murungu – Zimbabwe (ChiShona)
Lekgowa – Botswana (Tswana)

[Stan]

Gents,
Carl is correct... The word Mundele was a generalization for a Westerner regardless of skin color. Although an often offending word if you were French or Belg, it was not some racial term. In Lingala, many things are tied to the verb (and there's only 100 verbs to choose from), not necessarily plural or singular as most would think or were taught. If it could be so easy with less than 800 words

If you want a real "nut buster" we could all start using Finnish along with Mike's slang

I was often reminded by elders just how great the (Belgian) colonial times were in both Léopoldville (K-town) and Stanleyville (Kisangani). Surprisingly enough, there was more hatred (or jealousy) against/among the various tribes than any former Western power.

Regards, Stan

[JMA]

I was often reminded by elders just how great the (Belgian) colonial times were in both Lopoldville (K-town) and Stanleyville (Kisangani). Surprisingly enough, there was more hatred (or jealousy) against/among the various tribes than any former Western power.

Stan, how many of your compatriots understand this?

[Stan]

Stan, how many of your compatriots understand this?

Hey Mark !

None in civilian clothes. Strange how military can just sense things like this.

I've said this at least 1,000 times.... we suck at Africa and we are not interested in some investment like training people to understand and appreciate what and who they are dealing with.

How goes it ?

Regards, Stan