Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 291

Thread: Russian Bronze Statue in Estonia

  1. #21
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Estonian fascists lay barbed wire wreath to monument of Soviet Warrior-Liberator

    A group of radical Estonian nationalists attempted to lay a wreath of barbed wire to the monument of Soviet Warrior the Liberator in Tallinn. The slogan written on the ribbons attached to the wreath said : “To the murderer of the Estonian nation.”

    The defenders of the monument who were informed about the imminent provocation gathered near the Bronze Soldier in Tallinn to express their own protest. They formed a live chain near the monument. The police later encircled the people to prevent a possible outbreak of violence.

    The Estonian nationalists decided to conduct an action of sacrilege to mark the anniversary of the deportation of Estonians, which Soviet leader Joseph Stalin signed on March 25, 1949.
    More here
    http://shaan.typepad.com/shaanou/

  2. #22
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Russians and Balts are trapped by the past

    Just a little history !

    http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070326/62633158.html

    Russians think that Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians are arrogant, that their countries are malicious gnomes with an all-but-Nazi ideology, and that they hate Russia and treat Russian-speaking residents of their countries as second-class people. To be honest, Russians dislike the Balts for three reasons :

    To start with, they were the first to leave the Soviet Union - how ungrateful !

    Second, these pro-Western countries rushed into the EU and NATO - joined our enemies !

    Third, they make claims on our territory or demand compensation for what they call "the Soviet occupation."

    Discontent with the status of local Russians and other grievances are rooted in these causes. There are ex-Soviet countries where Russians are really having a hard time, but Moscow does not want to mess with dictatorships. It is much safer to lash out at the three Baltic democracies.

    Our protests against SS veterans' rallies or SS monuments in the Baltics are also affected in many respects. In Russia, people freely march under overtly Nazi slogans, and Nazi literature is sold in the open, but society does not worry too much about this.

    Moscow's traditionally high-handed attitude to small European countries and its habit of resolving all issues only with its big partners - America, Germany or France - is a source of rightful irritation in the Baltic nations. Russian policy towards them is hardly dexterous. What has our diplomacy done to build new relations with them ? Incidentally, when transport links with Kaliningrad turned into a big problem, Moscow desperately needed good relations with Lithuania, but there were none to be had.

  3. #23
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Well, He's on his way...Somewhere else :)

    Work to dismantle soldier monument to be continued in Tallinn

    Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said that the remains of Soviet soldiers could be removed from a common grave in downtown Tallinn and reburied, and that the monument to the Liberator Soldier could be relocated by May 9.

    "The new government, to assume duties soon, will continue the work to pull down the Bronze Soldier," Ansip told the press on Wednesday.

    The outgoing government has formed a commission for military graves which has made proposals. "Preparations for reburial are under way and this work will be continued," he said.

    Ansip announced that a place is being prepared at Tallinn's military cemetery where the remains will be buried and the Bronze Soldier placed.

  4. #24
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Russia upset with Estonia's plans to remove statue

    Apr 04, 2007
    TBT staff

    Sergei Ivanov, the first deputy prime minister of Russia, on tuesday appealed to Russians at a WWII veterans meeting to refrain from buying Estonian goods and from travelling to Estonia. Ivanov said that the Estonian authorities' plans to remove the Red Army monument – known as the Bronze Soldier – from Tonismagi in central Tallinn was an act of vandalism which “will not pass without leaving a trace on Estonian-Russian relations.”
    He then urged the members of the meeting to refrain from buying Estonian goods, which he said Russians were buying eagerly, or from travelling to Estonia on holidays. Ivanov also said that the construction of the Ust-Luga port in the Leningrad region should be sped up in order to cut the profits of Estonian ports.
    Andrei Denisov, the first deputy foreign minister of Russia, said that while Moscow is not planning to take any official measures of pressure against Estonia, it is not satisfied with the present situation of Russian-Estonian relations.

  5. #25
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Vacation in our Kaliningrad,” the first deputy premier said.

    No measures against Estonia over monument

    Sure wish these Russkies would figure out what they want to do with the Broze dude !

    The Estonian police no longer guard it, and the drunk youth certainly add a new dimension. Nice touch, empty vodka bottles and cigarette butts liter the grass every Friday and Saturday. That's kinda sorta honor...right ?

    MOSCOW -- Russia is not going to take any economic measures against Estonia over the situation regarding the monument to the Liberator Soldier in Tallinn, Andrei Denisov, the Russian first deputy foreign minister, said on Tuesday. “No measures against Estonia are considered,” he said.

    Denisov said the statement by First Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Sergei Ivanov on this subject on Tuesday “was an emotional statement.”

    Ivanov said at the meeting with Russian veterans that the actions of the Estonian authorities regarding the monument to the Liberator Solder in Tallinn “cannot but affect Russian-Estonian relations.” “The construction of (of a port) in Ust-Luga of the Leningrad region should be completed prompter so as not to augment the budget of Estonia in the ports of which 85 percent of the cargoes are Russian,” the first deputy premier said.

    “Civil society should manifest its stand, too,” Ivanov said. “Many products manufactured in Estonia, including sour milk products, are sold in north west Russia. People can keep from buying them and thus express their attitude to the policy of the Estonian authorities,” he said.

    “I don’t call for a boycott,” Ivanov said. “This is not a matter of our state sanctions. This is a civil stand. Don’t buy Estonian. Don’t vacation in Estonia. Vacation in our Kaliningrad,” the first deputy premier said.

  6. #26
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Soviet WWII veterans demand ban on nationalist demonstration

    Juri Liim had been arrested for holding the Estonian Colors last year. Imagine that ! Now it's his turn at the helm. I say "good on ya Juri !" The Russians normally hold their annual 'vodka' contests with 'Red' flags this day. Too bad folks, the party is over

    Apr 11, 2007
    from wire reports
    http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/17673/

    In the latest on the controversy surrounding the Tonismagi monument – also known as the Bronze Soldier – an organization aimed at bringing together WWII veterans who fought with the Soviet Union has asked the authorities to ban a public event that Juri Liim, a nationalist activist, is planning to stage on May 9 at the site.
    A letter by the association of veterans' organizations with the request to ban the nationalist event was sent to President Toomas Hendrik Ilves, Prime Minister Andrus Ansip and Interior Minister Juri Pihl.
    The letter signed by Karl Velts, vice chairman of the association, says that gatherings at the monument used to go peacefully until "right-wing radicals started to stage provocations."
    The monument grounds usually serve as venue for a large gathering of members of the Russian-speaking community on May 9.

  7. #27
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Estonian President for dialog with Russia

    More on the bronze soldier. Must be a burning issue with Russians to receive a Presidential explanation.

    Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves is for a dialogue with Russia on the shifting of the monument to the Soviet Liberator Soldier in Tallinn.

    “I’d prefer that a solution of this question would include a dialogue with the Russian side. But there was virtually no dialogue, and, therefore, if an approach changes, we can discuss this question,” he emphasized, replying to questions by readers of BBC and the Russian Rambler Internet portal.

    Ilves noted at the same time that “if the Estonian government decides to do something in the country’s territory, it has the right to do so, as Russia has the right to decide what it can do in its territory”.
    More here:
    http://shaan.typepad.com/

  8. #28
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Another Brick In The Wall

    The controversy surrounding the red army monument in Tallinn contributes to poor Russian-Estonian relations
    Apr 18, 2007
    Staff and wire reports
    Russia, Estonia, and the EU: the saga of the bronze soldier continues...

    With buldozers in place and the praised 9 May celebration closing, Estonia intends for this era to end on a high note. I hope so too. I have to drive past that intersection each day. Be a true shame to close it, my favorite waterin hole is near by

    Relations between Russia, Estonia and the EU have been on the rocks lately, due in large part to the bronze statue controversy.

    A series of recent statements and planned events by both Estonia and Russian authorities have highlighted this rift. Igor Ivanov, Russian secretary of the Security Council, said on April 18 that Russia plans to try to keep the spotlight on the bronze soldier – a red army monument in downtown Tallinn – which he said signifies the glorification of Nazism in Estonia. Ivanov said that they were prepared to use the wide variety of means at their disposal to accomplish this, including “all legal norms and mechanisms arising from our common membership in one or another intenational organization.”
    “I don't think the arsenal we have at our disposal is limited,” Ivanov said. “We shall carry on this work in various international organizations and on the bilateral level.”

    The Russian community in Tallinn has been galvanized into action by the bronze soldier row. Veterans of the Soviet army are planning a flower laying ceremony on May 9 to commemorate their fellow soldiers. Meanwhile, members of Nochnoi Dozor (Night Watch), a informal group of mostly young Russian-speakers set up to defend a Red Army monument in downtown Tallinn, are going to Strasbourg to stage a picket in defense of the monument.

    Estonian MEP Tunne Kelam expressed concern with Russia’s trends away from European values. “Repeated expressions of concern about the reversal of democratic development (in Russia) make no impact if they do not carry the EU's clear message that we cannot proceed with certain issues if other questions remain without an answer,” he said.

    Mart Laar, chairman of the Pro Patria and Res Publica Union Faction of Estonian parliament, said on April 18 that the long entertained hope that Russia would in time develop into a law-governed state has been foiled. He said that Russia is trying to use Europe’s lack of solidarity to play member states against one another.
    The president of the European Parliament, Hans-Gert Poettering, also thought that this was a large issue with Russia, arguing that best and most tangible remedy for Russia-related apprehensions is the EU's rallying for a common and solidaristic policy.

    Meanwhile, in an effort to help improve relations, Estonian Interior Minister Juri Pihl will take part in a meeting to be held in Luxembourg on Thursday and Friday is to make a decision on the EU-Russian readmission treaty and easing of the issuance of short-term visas.

  9. #29
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Excavation to begin on Bronze Soldier site

    Apr 20, 2007
    From wire reports
    In cooperation with BNS

    Yesterday evening the intersection was being fenced off with more than 20 police officers performing foot patrols into the night (about 5 times more than normal, especially for a single intersection).

    Hope they get this done before the 9th of May, or there will be some very interesting rallies to watch

    Estonia's Defense Minister Jaak Aaviksoo has sent the Tallinn city government notification of the start of excavation and identification works on the site of the controversial Bronze Soldier monument at Tonismagi in downtown Tallinn.

    The purpose of the planned excavation is to establish the number and identity of persons who are assumed to lie buried on the site, the governmental press service said.

    The Estonian government plans to move the monument to a nearby military cemetery, a plan which has drawn fire from veterans groups as well as from Russia, which continually berates Estonia over the issue. No firm date has been set for the move.

    Aaviksoo later briefed members of the Cabinet on preparations for works to be carried out on the site pursuant to the War Graves Protection Act, and the government assigned tasks to state institutions to ensure that the work is carried out in an appropriate manner and in keeping with all international norms.

    Members of the government agreed that the Interior Ministry will secure public order in the area during the excavation. The ministry's task is also to rearrange traffic if necessary.

    The late 1940s Red Army monument, locally known as the Bronze Soldier, commemorates Soviet soldiers who died in World War II and has traditionally been a rallying point each May 9 for veterans celebrating the Soviet Union’s defeat of Nazi Germany. Because the Red Army’s invasion of Estonia at the end of the war and decades of Soviet occupation and repression, however, many Estonians find the monument offensive.

    The monument has been a source of tension since last May 9, when police prevented a group of Estonian nationalists from demonstrating at the site, where a veterans’ rally was already taking place.

    The Tallinn city government has taken legal action to prevent the excavations. However, the administrative court did not accept the city's complaint as it was deficient. The court also rejected a repeat application for initial legal protection filed by the city government last Wednesday to stop the works from going ahead.

    The previous defense minister, Jurgen Ligi, decided shortly before leaving office to start excavations at Tonismagi to remove the remains of Red Army soldiers believed to be buried there to a more suitable place as recommended by the War Graves Commission, a body set up at the Defense Ministry. He said the works to dig out war graves and identify the remains would start in April.

    Meanwhile Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said at a news conference in Madrid on Wednesday that the plan to relocate the monument cannot be described other than as "blasphemous and an insult to the memory of those who freed Europe from Nazism," Russian news agency Interfax reports.

    A poll taken April 13 - 16 showed that more than half inhabitants of Russia, 59 percent, believe the removal of the monument is discriminatory and provokes further tension in Estonian-Russian relations, the Russian news agency Interfax reported.

    At the same time 20 percent of the polled said both parties to the row over the monument should behave in a more restrained and wiser manner.

  10. #30
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default

    According to multiple reports, the Estonian government will spend up to $125,000 for every 24-hour period in order to maintain order surrounding the bronze soldier.

    Following reports of telephonic messaging offering Estonia’s Russian youth $6.50 an hour to guard against the monument’s removal, police officers from all across the country have been called back from leave and ordered to the capital.

    At 0430 this morning, law enforcement barricades were erected and archeologists set up their equipment to commence digging.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #31
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Here are 2 reports about German and Soviet occupations in Estonia. If you read those, then you understand that Estonia is victim of both regimes. That's why it is very disturbing for Estonians to understand that Nazis are bad and Soviets are good. Russia occupied us until 1994, when last soldiers left bases. Until 1991. when Estonia became independent Soviet repression machine worked in full gear. Russia is trying to built it's identity on Soviet traditions and big victories and that's why it is very painful for them to see us making our own decisions. I added also pictures about their own reburial in Himki district in Moscow. ... and there were no problems. This is exactly the same thing in Tallinn, that our government intends relocate monument to cemetary.

    http://www.historycommission.ee/temp/index.htm

    http://www.historycommission.ee/temp/index.htm

    http://www.just.ee/orb.aw/class=file...eWhiteBook.pdf

    About Himki.

    http://drugoi.livejournal.com/2161390.html#cutid1
    Last edited by kaur; 04-26-2007 at 01:56 PM.

  12. #32
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Coming soon to a theater near you

    Thanks for the links Kaur !

    I have but one thing to add at this point regarding Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's last and recent threat:

    There will be "severe consequences" for moving the monument to a cemetery.
    I have to wonder, will such consequences include the rape and mutilation of women, the mass execution of Estonian leaders, and carting President Ilves off for a lengthy stay in Tver? Or just a boycott of Estonian Sour Cream ?

    Stay tuned.

    PS

    Is Lavrov representing the Russian Federation or the Russian Mafia? Protesting is one thing, but "threatening consequences" is quite another -- bullying a sovereign country which also happens to be a member of NATO.
    Last edited by Stan; 04-26-2007 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Forgot the last line !

  13. #33
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Probably the last post for this thread

    For those who viewed this thread from time-to-time, this will be my last one.

    The controversial Bronze Soldier monument was removed this morning at about 0400 following an Estonian government emergency meeting in the interests of national security after a night of heavy rioting.

    One man was killed; over 50 reported injuries and over 300 arrests.

    Violence broke out yesterday evening after skirmishes between police and several hundred Russian-speaking youths, gathered throughout the day and early evening to protest what was only to be exploratory excavation work. The rioters (mainly teenagers in their 20's), after being pushed back from the monument onto side streets, smashed nearly every ground floor window and some 2nd and 3rd story windows in the first city block leading to the monument's site.

    Based on reports that many of those who participated in disturbances were drinking, Tallinn authorities have banned the sale of alcohol beginning today at 1400 until the morning of May 2nd.

    We were on duty last night, performing typical EOD response calls and couldn't comprehend the destruction and violence along a major BLVD taking place. As we came up behind one of the local fire company trucks and fire investigator's Subaru, a hail of stones and various other projectiles hit the fire truck and the driver brought the beast to a dead halt. The road now nearly blocked and almost nowhere to go, we cranked our Patrol into high gear over the curbs and hauled ass. The fire truck decided to follow us!

    I realize that this crowd was predominately Russian and very drunk, but our vehicles are red and white (Police vehicles are blue), with 'Rescue Services' and '112' all over the vehicle (police emergency is 110).

    As one firefighter said to me, “I’ve been rescuing these Russians from burning buildings for years, and this is the thanks I get”.

    There are over 15 videos on you tube, but this one shows the beginning and subsequent lootings.

    Footage from "Bronze Soldier" Riot 2
    Last edited by Stan; 04-27-2007 at 12:38 PM. Reason: fixed the link...still learning !

  14. #34
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    I'd like to add to Stan's post that 1 victim was not result of riot police job, but victim of stabbing among two persons with Slavic names.

  15. #35
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,188

    Default

    Drunk Russians! No! What is the world coming to!? Glad to hear you didn't have to grapple with any of the Bolsheviks on hand.

  16. #36
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Estonian Government has removed the grave marker

    Hey Goesh !
    We had sidearms, but were already instructed to leave, not shoot. A damn shame if you ask me. I'll go to the range this weekend as promised and use my imagination

    A little more from the Estonian MFA. Well put, Mr. Minister !
    http://www.vm.ee/eng/kat_138/8370.html

    Originating from the situation in Tallinn and acting based on the “Protection of War Graves Act” §8 article 2, the Estonian Government has decided to immediately remove the Tõnismäe grave marker (Bronze Soldier).

    The objective of the government’s decision is to avert further brutal acts of public violence, which are realistic threats to the health and property of citizens. The decision to immediately remove the Bronze Soldier was made to ensure that it cannot be used in the future as a reason or cause for extensive and dangerous rioting.

    Yesterday’s rioters found the police presence and the assembly of people to be a good reason to act destructively.

    The rioters showed clearly that their real goal was to riot, destroy, break and loot.

    These actions confirm that they have nothing to do with respecting and protecting the memories of those who fell during World War II.
    Meanwhile, the Russians are considering -- and probably will -- sever diplomatic relations with Estonia.
    Last edited by Stan; 04-27-2007 at 01:33 PM.

  17. #37
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Estonian government cuts up WWII memorial

    What a load of malarkey !

    The entire monument is hiden and still in one piece.

    The Russian propaganda machine is alive and funtioning.

    "The Bronze Soldier has been cut up into separate pieces and taken out of the city center. Currently it is under police protection. Information about its whereabouts is not being released," the press service said. The press service declined to say whether the monument will ever be restored. "I cannot answer this question," the spokesman said.
    More here...

    and CNN as well..
    Last edited by Stan; 04-27-2007 at 03:17 PM.

  18. #38
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default More riots, looting and mayhem

    Estonia’s capital was calm this morning after a second night of rioting.

    Reports are approx. 60 injured, 47 hospitalized and 600 detained.

    Groups of ethnic Russian teens roamed the streets battling with police and looting shops for a second night.

    Yesterday evening rioting also started in the northeastern town of Jõhvi. An Estonian radio correspondent said that a crowd of about 200 gathered in the Center Square at around 2200 and within the next hour rampaging had gained full force. In true Russian form, smashing windows at two different shopping centers and traffic signs pulled out of the ground, one of which was thrown into a window of a local bank office. By 2400, Estonian TV reported police had subdued the rioting in Jõhvi.

    A New Twist
    Police began an early counter attack and now armed with 12-ga. shotguns moved into a proactive role pushing the rioters well outside of previous perimeters. Local Estonians bearing their own flags joined police and clashed with Russians, bring the tempo up a notch...as well as a good warm and fuzzy patriotic feeling

    The Estonian media also began doing their part by publishing pictures of looters asking for residents to assist police in identifying suspects. In the last 3 hours more than 40 have been picked up and cross-referenced with footage.

    Russian authorities strongly criticized the monument’s relocation as pro-Nazi in public statements. Estonia continues to support the relocation because the monument has become a focal point of extremist activity for nationals, and its presence glorifies a repressive Stalin regime that the Russian Army brought with it.

  19. #39
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Jamestow writes:

    Some 1,500 people, mostly local Russians, some of them mobilized by the Nochnoy Dozor (Night Watch) red-brown group, had gathered around the Bronze Soldier in the pre-midnight hours. Some tried unsuccessfully to break through police lines, while most of them rampaged on shopping and residential streets downtown. The rioting received a second wind after the looting of liquor from bars on Tatari Street. Scores were injured, many of them by glass from vandalized shops. One death was reported in a stabbing incident. Thirteen policemen received injuries requiring hospitalization. Some 300 rioters were arrested throughout the night.
    Clearly, Moscow calculated that “anti-fascist” protests in Estonia would fit well into Russia’s overall political campaign against the Baltic states on the international level as well as in Russia itself. However, the spree of drunken vandalism that actually ensued in Tallinn will not easily be ennobled by Moscow as “political protest.”
    http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article...cle_id=2372127

    So it seems the government of Estonia is "inhuman" because it dares to disagree with Russia. Perhaps that means it should be "exterminated" like an infestation? Break diplomatic relations? Mironov is the same person who is calling for appointing Vladimir Putin an indefinite rule as dictators, the same one who stood by watching trainees use Alexander Litvinenko's photograph for target practice. Who are the Russians kidding? Estonia is a part of NATO and the EU. Attacking Estonia is attacking NATO and the EU -- and, come to think of it, Putin just announced a pullout from a major security treaty in Europe. Maybe war is just what Russia wants?
    http://russophobe.blogspot.com/

  20. #40
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default May he rest in peace

    After nearly 3 full days of rioting and looting, our little town is on its way back to normal, the bronze soldier relocated (just behind the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier) and a Russian Duma delegation visiting.

    Suprisingly enough, Estonia is still taking hits from Europe over the recent decisions and aftermath:

    Leading article: Don't let Russia bully the Baltics
    We have had the strange spectacle of the EU nodding with apparent respect as Vladimir Putin's ministers lecture Estonia on civil rights. This is hypocrisy on a grand scale, given Russia's treatment of its unhappy Chechens and its rough handling of recent anti-government protests in Moscow and St Petersburg.

    This is the proverbial road to hell paved with good intentions. Indulging Russia's imperial attitudes towards the Baltic states, which it invaded in 1940 and ruled harshly for the next half-century, is not going to get us anywhere. We merely are feeding Moscow's appetite to re-establish influence over those former Soviet republics that it revealingly refers to as the "near abroad".
    Attached Images Attached Images

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •