Russian Bronze Statue in Estonia

**Stan** · 08-01-2007

Hey Tequila !

Originally Posted by tequila

From your own initial post:

That certainly seems to imply government support for the event.

That's my post from a newspaper, but my opinion or feeling was as follows:

Originally Posted by Stan

The gatherings or venue this past Sunday (there were two as Kaur pointed out) were not to celebrate SS units or Nazi Germany, but in memory of those Estonians in those units who fought side-by-side in the belief of freedom from Russia. IMO, the Minister’s statement reads “we need more patriots like you and take action in our country so that Estonians recognize the need for patriotism and Estonian freedom from future occupation.”

I doubt and hope that the MOD did not commit political suicide over such a minuscule event (as the new government has only been around for 100 plus days now). Stranger things have however happened here.

**kaur** · 08-02-2007

Dmitri Trenin from Carnegie's Moscow branch has written well about Bronze Soldier events in Tallinn in the context of Russian-western relations. He is just too modest in his statement

"Some would even say Soviet rule was heavier, because it lasted longer."

I would say (and people who know Estonian history would add) that those occupations are hard to compare in terms of human lives and political-economical-social terms.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/20-21.pdf

**Stan** · 08-06-2007

Estonia’s objective is to maintain a stable level in NATO operations.

During meeting with Prime Minister Ansip, General Raymond Henault, Chairman of the NATO Military Committee, who is on an official visit to Estonia, was convinced that Estonia, as a member of the alliance, has been able to provide security to other countries.

According to Henault, Estonia’s contribution to the activities of the alliance has been significant - Estonia’s activities in missions as well as our specialists’ knowledge of cyber defence are important.

General Henault expressed appreciation to Estonian soldiers. According to him, members of the Estonian Defence Forces serve as an example to others, they have received good training, and they are bold and willing to fulfil the tasks assigned to them.

The General believes that many countries may also contribute to the NATO Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence, which will be founded in Estonia.

**Stan** · 08-08-2007

From the business section of the Moscow Times

Russian Railways has lifted restrictions on oil products exports to Estonia, traders said Tuesday, adding that the latest short-lived ban has added to uncertainty over the future of the politically unsafe route.

Traders with Russian oil firms and at Estonian terminals said fuel oil flows from three major Russian refineries have returned to normal last week, just two weeks after the railway issued an unofficial order to halve supplies.

"It looks like all [cargoes] are moving again, but we are in the dark as to how much we will get in August because there is no confirmation [from Russia] of the overall volumes," a source at a major terminal in Estonia said.

Russian Railways has repeatedly imposed sanctions on shipments toward Estonia since May, after political relations with Tallinn soured.

Previous reductions have halted gasoline and naphtha exports, leaving the light products-focused terminals mostly dry, while the latest round of restrictions affected fuel oil -- a key export that had been largely unaffected until July.

TNK-BP's Ryazan refinery, Surgut's Kirishi refinery and the Yaroslavl plant, half owned by TNK-BP and Gazprom Neft, are the key fuel oil shippers via Estonia.

"Kirishi seems fully back to normal with fuel oil supplies. And we are hearing it is also the case with Gazprom Neft and TNK-BP. Some volumes have been rerouted to Klaipeda [in Lithuania], but all in all Estonian business is back to normal," a Russian trader said.

Moscow's relations with Tallinn hit a low in April when Estonia removed the statue of a Red Army soldier from the center of its capital, angering Moscow.

**Stan** · 08-15-2007

Many of us woke this AM with e-mail to this link, purportedly by the Russian Youth Group, Nashi.

This 30.8 MB scanned video is extremely graphic in nature, with a decapitation using a hunting knife, and the other male being summarily executed with a round to the head.

Little doubt regarding Nashi’s intent towards the Baltic States.

The masked individual cries "For Russia" beginning and end.

**tequila** · 08-15-2007

Can't view the vid, but is this the skinhead murdering two Caucasian migrant workers as detailed here? Doesn't sound like there is much of a Baltic connection.

**Stan** · 08-15-2007

Originally Posted by tequila

Can't view the vid, but is this the skinhead murdering two Caucasian migrant workers as detailed here? Doesn't sound like there is much of a Baltic connection.

Hey Tequila,
Just tried the link again, seems to work fine. The Guardian's story appears to be the same, but left out the mass emailing notifications.

It's intended to be a skinhead performing the murders, as Moscow continues to insist the Baltics support such activists and the SS.

Regarding their past citizenships - Other than the recorded voice in Russian, I don't recall seeing individual documents in the video.

**Stan** · 08-16-2007

Russia's Daily On-Line Kommersant reports "Officers of Adygei Department of the RF Interior Ministry and prosecutors announced yesterday the detention of a man suspected of disseminating in Internet the video showing execution of natives of Tadjikistan and Dagestan."

The suspect is Viktor Milkov, 23, the student of corresponding department at Adygei Technological University. He is a member of National Socialist Party of Russia and makes living by paint work. Milkov keeps a blog in the Live Journal under vik23 nickname. Exactly his blog gave a link reference to the execution video on August 12 and, next day, posted a statement of National Socialist Party, where it assumed responsibility for the execution and said it was a militant wing of National Socialist Association.

National Socialist Association that is notorious for involvement in Russian Marches and attacks on gay parades denies any relation to the suspect, to the video and to the execution.

**Stan** · 08-16-2007

In an interview with the Baltic News Service...

TALLINN - Night Vigil, a movement of Estonian Russian-speakers set up to protect the Tallinn Red Army soldier monument at its former location, has forged links with the Latvian Anti-fascist Committee.

Night Vigil activist Dmitri Klenski told BNS Aug 14 that at a meeting during the weekend the parties came to an agreement regarding "the need to join forces [to counter] the spread of Neo-Nazi and Russophobe attitudes."

Participants at the meeting decided to organize monitoring of events and activities in their respective territoriesand to inform official international structures, media and local authorities of their activities and findings, he added.

**Stan** · 08-16-2007

From The Moscow Times and Estonia's Daily Postimees:

Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said Tuesday that some Russian youth groups reminded him of the Nazi Hitler Youth movement, but said his country wanted pragmatic relations with its former Soviet overlord.

"We cannot close our eyes when we see what is happening now in Russia," Ansip said.

"Those nationalist youth organizations, Nashi and Young Guard, they are like the Hitlerjugend in Germany," Ansip said, referring to two pro-Kremlin groups. "We have to be worried."

Nashi organized a blockade of the Estonian Embassy in Moscow after Estonia moved a bronze statue of a World War II Red Army soldier from central Tallinn to a military cemetery in April.

"One day, one lovely day, the Russian people will understand it is a big shame when they think such a small country as Estonia or Latvia or Georgia are enemies for Russia," Ansip said, referring to a recent opinion poll giving Russians' views on these countries.

**kaur** · 08-17-2007

Economist writes again about Estonia.

READ the Russian-language internet, and you will find Estonia portrayed as a hell-hole ruled by Nazi sympathisers who organise a grotesque form of apartheid hypocritically endorsed by the European Union.

Estonians look back on the Nazi occupation with loathing. Their country was caught between the hammer and the anvil in 1939, and whatever they did, only suffering and destruction awaited them.

What really annoys the Kremlin crowd is that Estonians (like many others in eastern Europe) regarded the arrival of the Red Army in 1944-45 not as a liberation, but as the exchange of one ghastly occupation for another. That flatly contradicts the Kremlin’s revived Stalinist version of history, which puts Soviet wartime heroism and sacrifice at centre-stage, while assiduously obscuring all the historical context. Given how the Soviet Union treated Estonia in 1939-41, it is hardly surprising that those who fought the occupiers when they returned are regarded as heroes. But they were not Nazis, nor are those who admire them now.

http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ory_id=9645274

I'm reading at present time Tony Judt's "Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945"
I would like to suggest this book to everyone that is interested about this mess that surrounds this thread. Estonia is just 1 little piece in this puzzle, but illustrates very well all misunderstandings.

http://www.amazon.com/Postwar-Histor...7357991&sr=8-1

**Stan** · 08-17-2007

Hey Kaur,

What gets me most about this UK journalistic crap is the way they titled the article: "The truth about eSStonia". I expected better from our English counterparts. What childish behavior, the way the Russian youth have described Estonia's current PM, AinSSip (correctly spelled Ainsip). Little else perhaps to do these days for the folks at The Economist

On that basis, the hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens who moved to the Baltic from the 1950s onwards were migrants settling illegally in occupied territories. Post-Soviet Lithuania granted them citizenship automatically. But Estonia and Latvia, where the demographic position was more precarious, insisted that they apply for citizenship if they wanted it, and pass a simple test in language and history.

This was not about ethnicity: Russians who lived in Estonia before the occupation (then around 10% of the population) and their descendants regained citizenship automatically. And it has worked rather well. Nearly 150,000 people have gained Estonian citizenship; only 8.5% remain stateless.

So, those poor folks without Estonian citizenship have lived here for 50 years and can't utter a word in the Estonian Language. Hmmm...What's holding them back ? You know what ? It's the law !

Get over it and study, or just go home

**Stan** · 08-17-2007

The Baltic Times just ran a story regarding Hans-Gert Poettering, President of the European Parliament as he toured Estonia in search of disgruntled ethnic Russians living under arduous rule in Estonia. His findings were somewhat less than Moscow would have hoped for.

Between Wednesday 15 and Friday 17 Aug, the German Europarliamentarian held a series of meetings with representative groups and summarised his findings in an interview with the Postimees newspaper.

"Life under the Communist dictatorship has left a very strong mark on Estonians. It is connected with liberty. That understanding, I think, is not very widesperead in Russia," he said.

Poettering said that it was necessary to make a thorough study of history in order to come to mutual understanding through learning and discussions. "It will then be possible to move on. It is important that the two communities should communicate with each other," he said.

“What really annoys the Kremlin crowd is that Estonians regarded the arrival of the Red Army in 1944-45 not as a liberation, but as the exchange of one ghastly occupation for another.”

The Economist goes on to claim that Estionia’s stance on citizenship “has worked rather well. Nearly 150,000 people have gained Estonian citizenship; only 8.5% remain stateless.”

UK-Russian relations are just as strained as Estonian-Russian relations at the moment with a round of diplomatic expulsions following in the wake of Russia’s refusal to extradite a suspect in the murder of former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko.

More at the link...

**Stan** · 08-22-2007

20 August 2007 is the date Estonians observe 'reindependence day'. President Ilves addressed the general public from his Kadriorg Palace during an open house.

Dear friends.

Usage of language and grammar mirrors our way of thinking. But do we really consider the recovery of our freedom, after half a century’s yearning, to be something impersonal, something passive? The expression „independence was regained” carries exactly that meaning. Whereas „restoration of independence” denotes positive action, purposeful activity from our side. Which, in fact, it was.

Let us ask ourselves: were not the forest brothers part of the process of the restoration of independence? Were not the schoolchildren, who defied the occupying powers in 1980, restorers of our independence? Probably to a greater extent than some of those who bear decorations today.

Today, we tend to forget. And furthermore, we are indeed advised to forget, as we read a couple of years ago in a review of the film „Memories Denied”, where a critic asked: why should the deported, the victimised remember? Why should they be hostages to their memories? It is better to forget, not to tell.

20 August 1991 and its outcome would have been impossible without the dissenters, the so-called dissidents. In a few days, it will be already 20 years from their most well-known demonstration in Hirvepark (Deer Park). Some of them came to Hirvepark with a towel rolled in their sleeve and a toothbrush in their pocket. They were already familiar with deportation and repressions. They were prepared for a second – in some cases a third – trip to Siberia.

Much more at the link...

**Stan** · 08-23-2007

From the Washington Post as well as just about every newspaper in Estonia:

TALLINN, Estonia -- The cousin of Estonia's late president committed genocide by helping deport his countrymen to Siberia nearly 60 years ago, prosecutors said Wednesday.

But Arnold Meri, a former top ranking Communist Party official in Estonia, claimed he was a mere civil servant. He also said his poor health means he is unlikely to survive a trial.

At the time, Meri _ a decorated Soviet army veteran _ was based in Tallinn, but was sent on a temporary assignment to the island of Hiiumaa, about 90 miles west of the Baltic nation's capital.

There he oversaw the capture of more than 250 civilians who were later shipped to the mainland and then by train to labor camps in Siberia, prosecutors said.

Arnold Meri is also a cousin of Lennart Meri, an enormously popular former president who served two terms from 1992 to 2001, after Estonia gained independence from the Soviet Union.

Lennart Meri and his family were deported to Siberia in June 1941, but managed to return to Estonia. The former president died last year.

Something with this reeks. Not only has the story been around since 2003, it appears to be: 1. A matter of timing; 2. A need for fall guy or; 3. Just plain ol' politics.

We began with the Bronze Dude and subsequent April riots, one murdered Russian Citizen and a world of Sierra over the two-day event.

Estonian authorities began to prosecute the guilty with promises of harsh time behind bars. The guilty just happened to be ethnic Russian youth

Estonians hold the 15th annual SS party in all places....Narva. Yep, that was indeed a smart idea !

Last week Estonian authorities back off originally promised harsh punishments (a year for the Kiosk dude just turned into 2 months).

Now we recently discover that deporting 250 plus of your own folks to Siberia for the Summer holidays is a crime

I ain't bitin'

**Stan** · 08-23-2007

Things suddenly got a whole lot more complicated in tiny Estonia. This move will no doubt help the sour relationship with the Motherland

ITAR-TASS on line reports:

TALLINN, August 22 (Itar-Tass) - Estonian authorities are readying to expel from the country discharged Russian servicemen and even their wives, both ex- and current. A report on Tuesday said that under a decision by the citizenship and migration department, Lyubov Mikolenko, the ex-wife of retired ensign Nikolai Mikolenko was brought to a center for displaced persons on June 29

On July 25, Lyubov Galitskaya, the wife of another retired Russian serviceman, a permanent resident of Estonia, was taken to the same center.

Authorities regard as illegal the staying of the former Russian servicemen turned civilians Nikolai Mikolenko and Anatoly Galitsky, since refusing to extend their residence permits back in 2000.

At that time, Estonia recommended them to leave “for their historic Motherland,” i.e. Russia.

In the 1990s, Mikolenko and Galitsky received vouchers to purchase housing in Russia, within the framework of a Russian-U.S. project, which Estonian authorities used as a pretext for the refusal.

The former servicemen, however, stayed on in Estonia, extending their visas now and then.

Nikolai Mikolenko has lived at a displaced persons center since 2003, and Galitsky - since late 2005.

Estonia has been having problems with their expulsion, as the expelled persons “refuse to cooperate with the authorities” in order expedite their eviction to Russia.

Lawyer of the Tallinn center of human rights information Andrei Aryupin said the refusal to grant residence permits to the former servicemen, who had been given assistance in purchasing housing elsewhere, but preferred to stay in the country, has no legal grounds.

Neither the availability of apartment outside Estonia, nor a voucher entitling the owner to such an apartment can serve as a reason for forceful eviction.

The vouchers were “an act of U.S. humanitarian assistance," aimed at helping Russia pull out its troops from Baltic states, including Estonia.

Estonia never took part in this project, and therefore can make no demands of the recipients of this assistance, Aryupin said.

**Stan** · 08-23-2007

With permission from the author. Scott Deil has lived in Estonia for about 10 years and continues to work as a Journalist. Sorry, no E-version available.

Quote
Walk a Mile in My Shoes

It’s said that only old men, drunks, and children tell the truth. If that’s the case, talking to an old man who’s had a few beers is the closest many journalists may ever get to the truth. And such was the case a few years ago at a birthday party in the United States. The party was thrown for a German immigrant, though as with many parties in the United States, it was attended by people of every race, creed, and color. One attendee was an Estonian who had served as a Lieutenant with the SS in World War II.
After a couple of drinks, he told his story. “I was 17 and stupid,” he said. “But I spoke both German and Russian fluently, and the SS thought I’d make a good officer. I knew one side would pick me up, and I had no lost love for the Russians.”
At the end of the war, he was arrested and sent to a prison camp, where he spent several years mounting a stage on a daily basis to be inspected by Jewish victims and witnesses of war crimes. “They were looking for officers responsible for locking women and children in a French church and burning it down,” he said.
“Did you do it?” the journalist asked directly.
“No,” he said. “I was in the artillery. I never killed a single Jew, though I certainly killed a hell of a lot of Russians.” The man turned his head, fighting tears. “But you know,” he said. “I was only 17. Just a stupid kid. Who’s to say I wouldn’t have done it if given the order?”
Unquote

**Stan** · 08-25-2007

Russia's News and Information Agency RIA Novosti reports on news from the Baltic States

ESTONIA

Analysts have lashed out at Russia for discrediting Estonia in a large-scale propaganda campaign. Policymakers are urging the formation of a government-run propaganda agency for stronger resistance to Moscow's ideological offensive.

"Why tolerate this all-round foolish criticism of Estonia? Several months ago we believed that there was no point in objecting to the Russian stupidities and that our diplomats would paint the true picture about Estonia and its people behind the scenes of world politics. But now we can now longer hope it will work. Our leaders should deal with this.... The Russians are humiliating us and lying in cold blood, and we have to counter their propaganda.

The press describes the Russian media coverage of a two-day fishing trip by Vladimir Putin and Prince Albert II of Monaco as the "best PR action of all times." During fishing in the Yenisei River, photographers took pictures of Putin stripped to the waist.

"During his last year in office, Putin has been surrounded by the halo of God Almighty.... Prince Albert of Monaco did not catch much, while Putin again pulled out a few salmon. Jubilant, he decided to please the photographers by taking off his shirt. Compared to the frequently drunk and ailing Boris Yeltsin, Putin looked excellent. The president is in good shape and looks as a man with a grip of steel, who can fight against everything, including Western influence."

**Stan** · 08-25-2007

Not to be outdone by the recent bout of monuments and their inherent meanings, here we go again !

Presiddent Ilves suggests yet another monument

ONWARD & UPWARD: New freedom monument could be joined by a memorial to victims to communism (Photo courtesy Estonian Ministry of Defense)

Estonia could have yet another monument to debate in addition to the Bronze Soldier and the Freedom Monument, after President Toomas Hendrik Ilves called for the construction of a new monument to victims of communism.

Speaking Aug. 23 at a meeting to mark the 20th anniversary of a key pro-independence demonstration in Tallinn, Ilves said: "The events of recent years have convinced me that Estonia, just like the other European countries which suffered from crimes against humanity, needs a memorial to the victims," Ilves said.

He cited recent research which indicated that ‘crimes against humanity’ affected nearly two thirds of Estonians, eithe directly or indirectly.

"If so big a share of our citizens has suffered under communism, we cannot let it simply to be forgotten, we mustn't allow it to be downplayed," the head of state said.

In what sounded suspiciously like a sideswipe at Russian policy in the wake of this year’s Bronze Soldier demonstrations, Ilves expressed regret that right until the present day there is evidence of attempts to “whitewash” what Estonians and other nations living under communism had to live through.

"I wouldn't be upset so much if the ones who downplay it were neutral bystanders," Ilves said. "But why is it that former members of the CPSU [Communist Party of the Soviet Union], including senior members of the party, are permanently justifying or downplaying the sufferings that befell others because of communists?"

But even as Ilves was speaking, Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly (PACE) President Rene van der Linden was criticizing Estonia’s handling of the relocation of the Bronze Soldier.

“I regret very much it happened in this way as this demonstrates disrespect of Russia’s role in World War II,” van der Linden told the Russia Today TV channel. “I’m sure there is finally a solution suitable for both parts. I’ll visit the Baltic States in the second part of September. No doubt this case will be part of my discussions with these countries. And I will also give attention to the position of Russian minorities.”