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  1. #1
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    In the April 25 issue of New Yorker magazine there is a long article in which the executive producer of "24" trots out all the "you would do it too" arguments.

    It is very interesting that all the real soldiers and agents quoted in the article condemn torture while the suits eagerly throw themselves off the cliff Tom talks about; throw themselves off while vigorously waving the flag.

    I would put in a link to the article but I don't know how.

  2. #2
    Council Member Dr Jack's Avatar
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    Default Producer of "24" New Yorker article

    Here's the link:

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...9fa_fact_mayer

    Each season of “24,” which has been airing on Fox since 2001, depicts a single, panic-laced day in which Jack Bauer—a heroic C.T.U. agent, played by Kiefer Sutherland—must unravel and undermine a conspiracy that imperils the nation. Terrorists are poised to set off nuclear bombs or bioweapons, or in some other way annihilate entire cities. The twisting story line forces Bauer and his colleagues to make a series of grim choices that pit liberty against security. Frequently, the dilemma is stark: a resistant suspect can either be accorded due process—allowing a terrorist plot to proceed—or be tortured in pursuit of a lead. Bauer invariably chooses coercion. With unnerving efficiency, suspects are beaten, suffocated, electrocuted, drugged, assaulted with knives, or more exotically abused; almost without fail, these suspects divulge critical secrets.
    ----
    Surnow, who has jokingly called himself a “right-wing nut job,” shares his show’s hard-line perspective. Speaking of torture, he said, “Isn’t it obvious that if there was a nuke in New York City that was about to blow—or any other city in this country—that, even if you were going to go to jail, it would be the right thing to do?”
    Much more at the link. It's hard to believe the show is as popular as it is... and disheartening that many blindly agree with these arguments.

  3. #3
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    Well, lets all watch tenet on 60 minutes sunday ight and buy his book. As far as torture/abuse, in a long term solution we always aspire for our allies to embrace our norms for satndards of conduct, so lets be careful of the size of the paintbrush we use when we discuss some of our allies. We are not going to change behavior their overnight or even in 5 years, it take about a generation.

  4. #4
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default The Tortured Lives of Interrogators

    Veterans of Iraq, N. Ireland and Mideast Share Stark Memories
    By Laura Blumenfeld, Washington Post Staff Writer

    The American interrogator was afraid. Of what and why, he couldn't say. He was riding the L train in Chicago, and his throat was closing.

    Being an interrogator, Lagouranis discovered, can be torture. At first, he was eager to try coercive techniques. In training at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., instructors stressed the Geneva Conventions, he recalled, while classmates privately admired Israeli and British methods. "The British were tough," Lagouranis said. "They seemed like real interrogators."

    The world of the interrogator is largely closed. But three interrogators allowed a rare peek into their lives -- an American rookie who served with the 202nd Military Intelligence Battalion and two veteran interrogators from Britain and Israel. The veterans, whose wartime experiences stretch back decades, are more practiced at finding moral balance. They use denial, humor, indignation. Even so, these older men grapple with their own fears -- and with a clash of values.
    More at the link.

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