Maybe it's easier to run a clean show when most of the assets don't have a whole lot to give up. Who trumps who with high value targets? Does the military keep high value grabs? Does the Iraqi government have final disposition over anyone captured? If so, it's out of sight and out of mind and the clean slate marches on and the manual isn't ruptured. I think the line gets blurred with considerations of terrorism and insurgency.
The Slippery Cliff
My experience in Lebanon and later in Rwanda just hammered home everything I had been taught as an intelligence officer. There is no "slippery slope" when it comes to torture. There is simply a cliff. Those who discuss "grey areas" are simply lost in the fog of poor judgement that screens the edge of the cliff. "They" torture, maim, and rape; we don't. That difference is central to our beliefs and is the core element of our strategic message in a war over ideas. Dressing anything less up as a necessary tactic in a war against terror only corrupts the message and the messengers.
If that sounds like I am being overly moral on this issue, you are hearing me loud and clear.
Tom
Torture
Fortunately, the new COIN manual (FM 3-24) is very explicit in stating that torture and tolerating these types of "interrogation techniques" are unlawful and self-defeating:
A great article that illustrates the ill effects of torture is in the Summer 2006 edition of Parameters by Lou DiMarco entitled Losing the Moral Compass: Torture and Guerre Revolutionnaire in the Algerian War:1-132. Illegitimate actions are those involving the use of power without authority—whether committed by government officials, security forces, or counterinsurgents. Such actions include unjustified or excessive use of force, unlawful detention, torture, and punishment without trial. Efforts to build a legitimate government though illegitimate actions are self-defeating, even against insurgents who conceal themselves amid noncombatants and flout the law. Moreover, participation in COIN operations by U.S. forces must follow United States law, including domestic laws, treaties to which the United States is party, and certain HN laws. (See appendix D.) Any human rights abuses or legal violations committed by U.S. forces quickly become known throughout the local populace and eventually around the world. Illegitimate actions undermine both long- and short-term COIN efforts.
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/p...er/dimarco.pdf
The official condoning of torture by French Army leaders had numerous negative effects that were not envisioned because of the army leadership’s intensive focus on tactical success. The negative results of torture included decreasing France’s ability to affect the conflict’s strategic center of gravity; internal fragmentation of the French Army officer corps; decreased moral authority of the army; setting the conditions for even greater violations of moral and legal authority; and providing a major information operations opportunity to the insurgency.
Tom,
"Overly moral"... Moral is an absolute, one is moral or one is not, just like integrity. The war on terror is so emotionally loaded that it is easy for us to forget what is absolute and what has degrees. If I haven't made myself clear, I agree with you, and we cannot afford to fall of that cliff.
"'It's not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray. . . .'
'There's no greys, only white that's got grubby.'" Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
In the April 25 issue of New Yorker magazine there is a long article in which the executive producer of "24" trots out all the "you would do it too" arguments.
It is very interesting that all the real soldiers and agents quoted in the article condemn torture while the suits eagerly throw themselves off the cliff Tom talks about; throw themselves off while vigorously waving the flag.
I would put in a link to the article but I don't know how.
Producer of "24" New Yorker article
Here's the link:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...9fa_fact_mayer
Much more at the link. It's hard to believe the show is as popular as it is... and disheartening that many blindly agree with these arguments.Each season of “24,” which has been airing on Fox since 2001, depicts a single, panic-laced day in which Jack Bauer—a heroic C.T.U. agent, played by Kiefer Sutherland—must unravel and undermine a conspiracy that imperils the nation. Terrorists are poised to set off nuclear bombs or bioweapons, or in some other way annihilate entire cities. The twisting story line forces Bauer and his colleagues to make a series of grim choices that pit liberty against security. Frequently, the dilemma is stark: a resistant suspect can either be accorded due process—allowing a terrorist plot to proceed—or be tortured in pursuit of a lead. Bauer invariably chooses coercion. With unnerving efficiency, suspects are beaten, suffocated, electrocuted, drugged, assaulted with knives, or more exotically abused; almost without fail, these suspects divulge critical secrets.
----
Surnow, who has jokingly called himself a “right-wing nut job,” shares his show’s hard-line perspective. Speaking of torture, he said, “Isn’t it obvious that if there was a nuke in New York City that was about to blow—or any other city in this country—that, even if you were going to go to jail, it would be the right thing to do?”
Well, lets all watch tenet on 60 minutes sunday ight and buy his book. As far as torture/abuse, in a long term solution we always aspire for our allies to embrace our norms for satndards of conduct, so lets be careful of the size of the paintbrush we use when we discuss some of our allies. We are not going to change behavior their overnight or even in 5 years, it take about a generation.
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