About This Forum: Social Sciences, Moral and Religious

[marct]

Hi Graphei,

Thanks for the reference, i appreciate it. Now to find the time to track it down and actually read it ...

For me, the problem of using methods like those on cultures like the Minoans is this; we can't really read what they were writing down to check the interpretation against. Linear A is still a mystery and anything writing in Linear B has to do with goods- even 'cult' objects found in temples. So what if Fred from Hamlet B brought 3 goat skins of vino and it's inscribed on fork found in a temple? Classicists/Archaeologists believe the Greek chthonic goddesses are Minoan in descent, but can we really reverse engineer religious beliefs from 5th Century Athenians? I don't know. I don't mean to be argumentative. Maybe it's my evil, inner Classicist that is very skeptical.

Honestly, I don't know either . It's one of the reasons I like Ginzburg's approach; he doesn't say anything about "truth", just about plausibility. Admittedly, Linear B is pretty useless, but it does allow us to define the problem space better and let us disprove some hypotheses. then again, it's not often we find such great resources as the Pylos tablets....

As far as reverse engineering religious beliefs is concerned, that is a real problem. Some of it we can do pretty well, at least in terms of shaping the problem space. Building the logic chains, however, is a real problem, especially since we aren't dealing with anything that is uniform at all.

Like you, looking at Minoan (and earlier) religious systems is something I did a while back, and I haven't really kept up with what's coming out of archaeology in the area. It's one of those areas that I'd like to get back into - when I have 3-4 months of free time and don't have to earn a living .

Cheers,

Marc

Anyway, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for human sacrifices in Uganda. Might squeeze and article out of it someday...

[Beelzebubalicious]

Ran across this and thought I would post it for feedback. I also suspect that Grant McCracken and Marc are close friends. I mean, they are both Anthropologists and Canadian...

[M-A Lagrange]

Hello,

Just have a look on The Mask of Anarchy from Stephen Ellis.(http://www.amazon.com/Mask-Anarchy-U...3506259&sr=1-1)
Wonderfull book on Liberia and the role of canibalism into the construction of a society and how Taylor used it to destructure the society.
Interresting and chilling. Personnaly I would call that the absolute war: a strategy that aim to use the worst darkest side of a society to destroy not only the cultural tissu but to destroy even the pillars of it.

M-A

[marct]

Ran across this and thought I would post it for feedback. I also suspect that Grant McCracken and Marc are close friends. I mean, they are both Anthropologists and Canadian...

All I can say is ..... .

Oh, yeah,..... "No Comment".

[Beelzebubalicious]

This is a disturbing look in to Liberia's violent past (and present?). Reason I post it here will be obvious when you watch the video and hear all the references to drinking the blood of innocent children and eating people's hearts...

Anthropologist in me sees this as chest thumping stuff, but then again...

[marct]

This is a disturbing look in to Liberia's violent past (and present?). Reason I post it here will be obvious when you watch the video and hear all the references to drinking the blood of innocent children and eating people's hearts...

Anthropologist in me sees this as chest thumping stuff, but then again...

Very disturbing. "Chest thumping"? Maybe, but I would be extremely surprised if it isn't a) going on and b) accelerating in frequency.

[M-A Lagrange]

I spend a year in Liberia in 2001 and I must say that human sacrifices were common things but noot accepted.
The population was against but, as described into Stephen Ellis book, it's the main counter power there. Liberia central State has been fighting against it basically since it's creation.

What is really disturbing in Liberia is that the symbolism into Christian religion has been used to legitimate canibal practices.

But I would also add this
1) it always has been a limited thing.
2) According too Ellis, Taylor deregulated the practice t make it common, accessible t all. And that's what sunked Liberia in a place that even the devil forgot (cf Liberians).
3) Population is against it and the deregulatioon of it has been one of the core reasons Liberia peace has been achieved through an in depth societal change: they elected a women!

[marct]

What is really disturbing in Liberia is that the symbolism into Christian religion has been used to legitimate canibal practices.

The symbolism has always been in the Christian religion, but it has usually been contained and blocked off (think about the debates over transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation). It was also been a major symbolic inversion used in the reconstruction of witches as Christian "heretics" during the 15th - 17th centuries ce or earlier against the cathars, the Bogomils, the Jews, etc.

Part of the reason why it was blocked off, other than the PR part about it being the "final sacrifice", is that Christian symbology has pretty much always known that blood magic is quite powerful in terms of manipulating perceptions, emotions and actions. I hadn't realized that Taylor "deregulated" it but, again, that's a pretty standard move in opposition to a dominant symbol system.

[Hacksaw]

You're right... disturbing and I thought I was past being surprised by the brutality of the human race... and we've essentially ignored (or worse) this area for so long...