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[marct]

Hi graphei,

I was taught to categorize any group as gnostic if they maintained that 'secret', esoteric knowledge outside of what was revealed would lead to salvation.

Hmmm, we might want to start trying to differentiate; the term can be used in so many ways. For example, using your definition, we could include certain factions in the CIA !

Regardless of their practices all gnostic groups presented a big problem for the early Church. One end of the gnostic spectrum incest, murder, cannibalism, bestiality, etc., was alleged, drawing the ire of the State and giving Christians a bad name. The more scholarly, philosophical bunch were quietly undermining the authority of the Church, adding to the problems the early Church fathers were having. I'm sure you can all figure out what happened next...

Hummph! Last frequency distribution spread I say for 50 - 150 ce had the Gnostics in the majority being attacked by a bunch of Plato loving fascists . Yeah, I've read a chunk of the allegations but they sound a little too Rush Limbaugh for me to credit. As for the scholarly bunch undermining the "authority of the Church"; good guys! Anyway, the modern, orthodox church doesn't come into being until Constantine creates his own with a healthy dose of Mithraism in it. This is what happens when you let bureaucrats run a religion....

While groups like the Valintinians are gnostic poster children, there was definitely something else going on in the shadows that theologians and philosophers are loathe to talk about, but Classicists won't shut up about. It survives by mention in letters between Church fathers discussing the 'issues' and Roman officials gossiping. Most of the good evidence is held at the Sackler in Oxford under lock and key.

I've seen some of the stuff but, again, it really doesn't hold that much validity for me since we see the same accusations showing up time and time again for a whole variety of groups. As for Valentinus, he always reminded me a bit of Anton Levay . As you say, the dangerous crowd were the ones in Alexandria (e.g. the Gospel of Mary group). Too bad they couldn't take down the fascists who leter grabbed control....

Cheers,

Marc

ps. If you happen to note a "slight" bias, that's because it's definitely there