About This Forum: Social Sciences, Moral and Religious

[marct]

Hi Tom,

Long time no chat! Glad to see you back here posting again.

Marc, I don't think the practice of witchcraft/sorcery, in the context of ritual child sacrifice, has got anything to do with social stress or social strain at all. Infanticide, maybe, because certainly exogenous social shocks to the system create sociogenic forces which cause crime. But, the ritual practice of killing kids to appease spirits comes endogenously (from the other direction).

Of course the impetus is endogenous, or at least the symbol system supporting such sacrifices is. Don't forget that a lot of social strain is also endogenous as well. There's a couple of points I want to raise here. First, that one article doesn't really give us much of a clue as to the symbolic structure of the sacrifice system they are using. From the little data in the article, it appears to be some form of classic "blood pact" sacrifice, but that could be an artifact of the churches being involved (consider, by way of example, a similar craze that "happened" in North America; cf The Satanism Scare by Bromley, Best and Richardson). Outside of the lack of symbolic data, we don't know who the clients are, so motives can only be ascribed, which is also problematic.

What might, and I emphasize "might", be happening is a con job using a syncretism of local magic practices tied in with the "dark side" of Christianity (NB: "Satanism", symbolically, is an integral part of Christianity). That is one plausible explanation. Another plausible one would be something along the lines of a larger version of the Adolfo Constanzo group / cult which, on the surface at least, appears to have truly believed in the efficacy of blood rituals.

The idea that when one is unhappy with their station in life, one should sacrifice a child in hopes of a better, wealthier future doesn't correlate with any known system stressors that I know of, except maybe demographic pressures.

Cosmological causality is the main one. Hmmm, let me give you an example of this. All cultures and societies operate on belief structures about how "reality" is structured and what causal linkages exist. And, while it is rare to find cultures that have a direct link of child sacrifice leads to prosperity, there are a few examples such as the Phonecians, Carthage (same culture group) and the Aztecs and their culture group. And yes, demographic pressure combined with high birth rates and exceedingly stratified societies are the main stressors.

The few places where we see it happening not at a general cultural level, but as an inversion, tend to be periods of either high social stress and desperation (e.g. the Constanzo cult) or periods of high anomie (e.g. late 19th century France), or times where people believe they are being "tested" (e.g. GEN 22:1-24).

The belief system is a warped kind of theodicy where the thinking goes like this: if I make the ultimate sacrifice, I may be better off.

Oh, if my suspicions are correct, then it is indeed a warped theodicity. personally, my gut guess is that it is a syncretic front using primarily "Satanic" elements and symbolic logics.

There are indeed certain rituals with social structural links like this, but child sacrifice isn't one of them. I'm going to have to go with this just being a psychologically twisted kind of crime on this one.

Honestly, I don't have enough data to make even an argument from probability, so I'm (self)limited to ones of plausibility.

Cheers,

Marc

[Tom OC]

It has indeed been awhile, Marc, and from my lurking here the last couple of years, it appears you're doing fine. We've been busy, rolling out new courses, hiring new faculty, holding symposiums, etc. Austin Peay is doing great. We'll have to get together again. Maybe our summer symposium on Indonesia. You may remember I did my dissertation fieldwork on Filipino terrorism. Did I every show you my collection of magic trinkets that ward off bullets? Anyway, I'd like to chat about your "con man syncretism" (for lack of a better term) idea. Basically, I agree that it's some kind of psycho-socio-religious hybrid crime, and I think we really need to develop some groundwork on such crimes. Can you SITREP me on relevant stuff already discussed? I've been doing most of my criminological research lately in the international human rights area (crimes against women and children), but these "magic man" con artists intrigue me in a riled up sort of way.
Tom

[marct]

Hey Tom,

It has indeed been awhile, Marc, and from my lurking here the last couple of years, it appears you're doing fine.

Let's just say "it's been interesting" .

We've been busy, rolling out new courses, hiring new faculty, holding symposiums, etc. Austin Peay is doing great.

Excellent! I'm in the process of building several new courses myself which I will probably want to pick your brains about. More later on that one...

We'll have to get together again. Maybe our summer symposium on Indonesia. You may remember I did my dissertation fieldwork on Filipino terrorism. Did I every show you my collection of magic trinkets that ward off bullets?

Definitely a plan! I don't think I ever saw your collection, though. maybe next time I get down there. I have a few interesting "odds and ends" tucked away myself .

Anyway, I'd like to chat about your "con man syncretism" (for lack of a better term) idea. Basically, I agree that it's some kind of psycho-socio-religious hybrid crime, and I think we really need to develop some groundwork on such crimes. Can you SITREP me on relevant stuff already discussed? I've been doing most of my criminological research lately in the international human rights area (crimes against women and children), but these "magic man" con artists intrigue me in a riled up sort of way.

Not too much written on it, but I'll email you in the next few days. There's a lot of stuff on moral entrepreneurs, a bit of which, like the Satanism Scare, that is directly applicable. Most of the rest of it comes out of social history, the history of witchcraft, a bit of political science (e.g. witchcraft accusations in South Africa), folklore, etc. ad nauseum. It would probably be simpler for the two of us to just write a paper on it .

Cheers,

Marc

[davidbfpo]

I have posted items on child sacrifice on another thread, on Uganda: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...?t=7483&page=3

Just noted issue appeared here.

[marct]

Thanks, David

[graphei]

I thought I'd throw my two pennies in about human sacrifice.

One of my 'guilty' pleasures when it comes to research is Black/Practical/Popular magic. Why? For the simple reason you find out what people really desire in life. Yes, for communal events people will band together and pray for puppies, rainbows, and kittens, but that is only one side to the coin. As long as people have believed in something bigger and more powerful than themselves, people have been trying to harness that power for their own benefit. While you may see it surface more during times of distress or transition, it has been- and always will be, there.

What is going in Uganda is unique because ~1% of the population practice indigenous religions. The rest overwhelmingly Christian (42% Catholic) with Muslims representing about 12%. I would be really interested to see if there is some kind of religious syncretism going on- similar to how Catholicism and African/Yoruba religion formed Vodou.


Also, aside from the cultures that were mentioned there is evidence that human sacrifice was practiced by the Minoans on Crete, who had a heavy influence on the Greeks. A dig at Anemospilia had the body of a young man hog tied on what archaeologists believe was an altar with a bronze dagger lodged in his bones. Another dig at Knossos revealed the bones of children who had been slaughtered in a similar manner to sheep and goats. The bones were found in a building archaeologists have dubbed "North House" and I believe no other artifacts were found near the bones.

In both the cases at Anemospilia and Knossos, archaeologists believe something ritualistic was going on, but why they were doing it is lost to the ages. We, from a 21st century perspective, would like to believe such events were to have an impact on events of cosmological importance, but in these cases, we simply have no religious records to go by.

[marct]

Hi Graphei,

One of my 'guilty' pleasures when it comes to research is Black/Practical/Popular magic. Why? For the simple reason you find out what people really desire in life. Yes, for communal events people will band together and pray for puppies, rainbows, and kittens, but that is only one side to the coin. As long as people have believed in something bigger and more powerful than themselves, people have been trying to harness that power for their own benefit. While you may see it surface more during times of distress or transition, it has been- and always will be, there.

Certainly some form of it at any rate .

What is going in Uganda is unique because ~1% of the population practice indigenous religions. The rest overwhelmingly Christian (42% Catholic) with Muslims representing about 12%. I would be really interested to see if there is some kind of religious syncretism going on- similar to how Catholicism and African/Yoruba religion formed Vodou.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least of there was a syncretic element going on. I've seen the official "belief" figures but, on the whole, that really doesn't say much about either actual belief or practice. 'sides that, there is certainly a long history of "magic" (please note, no "k" ) inside Christianity.

Also, aside from the cultures that were mentioned there is evidence that human sacrifice was practiced by the Minoans on Crete, who had a heavy influence on the Greeks. A dig at Anemospilia had the body of a young man hog tied on what archaeologists believe was an altar with a bronze dagger lodged in his bones. Another dig at Knossos revealed the bones of children who had been slaughtered in a similar manner to sheep and goats. The bones were found in a building archaeologists have dubbed "North House" and I believe no other artifacts were found near the bones.

I'd certainly like to see the references on the Anemospilia dig (I have them on the sacrifice chamber at Knossos). Some of that might have been part of the Sacred King mythos....

In both the cases at Anemospilia and Knossos, archaeologists believe something ritualistic was going on, but why they were doing it is lost to the ages. We, from a 21st century perspective, would like to believe such events were to have an impact on events of cosmological importance, but in these cases, we simply have no religious records to go by.

Not necessarily so, we do have inferential records so we can make arguments from plausibility. Carlo Ginzberg's Ecstacies is a good example of exactly that type of interpretation. Even when we have documentary records, there are always problems with them, usually problems of bias.

Cheers,

Marc