About This Forum: Social Sciences, Moral and Religious

[Beelzebubalicious]

When I see stories like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/8441813.stm)
I find it hard to understand from a cultural (or a relativist) point of view. Beyond the obvious reactions, I'm always intrigued by how pervasive the belief in spirits and the spirit world is in some countries, even in this "modern" world.

[marct]

When I see stories like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/8441813.stm)
I find it hard to understand from a cultural (or a relativist) point of view. Beyond the obvious reactions, I'm always intrigued by how pervasive the belief in spirits and the spirit world is in some countries, even in this "modern" world.

Much as I hate to say it, I find it perfectly understandable. One of the things to remember is that "witch doctors", which is a really lousy translation, have traditionally focused on breaking spells and identifying who cast them originally. These people sound more like "sorcerers" that "witch doctors".

Having said that, let me also note that belief in various and sundry "spirit" entities, and the willingness to use rituals based on them, increases during times of social upheavals and social strain. Back in the late 1980's, by way of example, there was a sorcerer operating out of Montreal who charged his clients $2000 per ritual; usually related to economic gain / stability. Another, more "mainstream" example, shows up in the Christian "Prosperity Movement".

BB, I'm not sure you would like what happened to your mind if you could get into the headspace to understand this sort of thing. Speaking from too much personal experience, it can have a very strange effect on your thinking !

Cheers,

Marc

[Beelzebubalicious]

I know what you mean. Happens when I spend too much time with my kids. I lose my ability to make adult decisions. My wife suspects I'm really still a child, but the truth is that I have become compromised by their mindset (if you can call it that).

[marct]

I know what you mean. Happens when I spend too much time with my kids. I lose my ability to make adult decisions. My wife suspects I'm really still a child, but the truth is that I have become compromised by their mindset (if you can call it that).

LOL - As a note, your original post got me going on a bit of a rant on the topic.

Cheers,

Marc

[Beelzebubalicious]

Marc, I replied to you over in harmonium. We'll see if that stirs the pot a little! A little cross-fertilization is always good.

In relation to your statement above, I also note here the quote from the report:

The Ugandan government told us that human sacrifice is on the increase, and according to the head of the country's Anti-Human Sacrifice Taskforce the crime is directly linked to rising levels of development and prosperity, and an increasing belief that witchcraft can help people get rich quickly.

The assumption is that such extreme measures are taken in times of desperation, but this appears to contradict this assumption and imply that perhaps people are getting rich precisely b/c they have made these sacrifices and that's why the rate of human sacrifice is increasing.

[marct]

Hi BB,

Marc, I replied to you over in harmonium. We'll see if that stirs the pot a little! A little cross-fertilization is always good.

True - I replied to your reply as well.....

The assumption is that such extreme measures are taken in times of desperation, but this appears to contradict this assumption and imply that perhaps people are getting rich precisely b/c they have made these sacrifices and that's why the rate of human sacrifice is increasing.

Personally, I think they are either misusing the term "witchcraft" in place of "sorcery" or they have missed the boat. Both can rise during times of social strain, and I suspect that both are on the rise in Uganda. Witchcraft, and witch doctors (finders, etc.) tend to rise when individuals perceive that they have suffered a relative misfortune, while sorcery tends to rise when people feel that they are not getting what they could / should out of current opportunities.

The assumption about the efficacy of the sacrifices is the key point to actually stopping them. Unfortunately, it is insanely easy (well, relatively speaking), to reconfigure a general belief in "magic", loosely construed, into the practice of blood magic in one form or another. What is much harder is stomping it out. By way of example, consider the Thugee cult in India during the 19th century...

[Tom OC]

Marc, I don't think the practice of witchcraft/sorcery, in the context of ritual child sacrifice, has got anything to do with social stress or social strain at all. Infanticide, maybe, because certainly exogenous social shocks to the system create sociogenic forces which cause crime. But, the ritual practice of killing kids to appease spirits comes endogenously (from the other direction). The idea that when one is unhappy with their station in life, one should sacrifice a child in hopes of a better, wealthier future doesn't correlate with any known system stressors that I know of, except maybe demographic pressures. The belief system is a warped kind of theodicy where the thinking goes like this: if I make the ultimate sacrifice, I may be better off. There are indeed certain rituals with social structural links like this, but child sacrifice isn't one of them. I'm going to have to go with this just being a psychologically twisted kind of crime on this one.