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Thread: Russian political psyche: history and modernity

  1. #41
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    mirhond

    FSB guy Strelkov/Girkin's deputy gave interview to Novaya Gazeta, where he justified Stalin's terror in 1930. Terror was ok, because next generation achieved success. Accrding to mirhond definition in 40 years golden era arrived. I think his points illustrate the thinking among top guys in Eastern Ukraine.

    PS mirhond, I hope that you survive the possible terror period without harm.
    1. It's a commonplace in current views on Stalin's era, sometimes terror is just accepted as unnecessary but inevitable flaw of bolshevism, sometimes it justified by calculation of utility function. The matter itself is more complicated, as usual.

    2. Wishful Thinking Fallacy. Show any good evidence of possible terror or you know what. And read a fine article about hybrid regimes. http://users.livejournal.com/_niece/249212.html

    В России не только демократия липовая, но и сталинские усы - накладные
    Last edited by mirhond; 08-18-2014 at 12:37 PM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  2. #42
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    mirhond, today this is common in Russia to play different camps against each other. Who is winner in the end? It seems to be Putin according to this article. First communists got beaten, then liberals and nationalists. What is left? Some kind of intellectual porrige that has something to eberybody.

    http://slon.ru/russia/zakonchilas_li...-1140655.xhtml

    mirhond, I do understand that this is all good for internal politics and crowd control, but how you justify those Stalinist admirers to external audience? You don't like them, but they are your son of bitches, who are roaming around with your weapons and support in neighbouring country.

  3. #43
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    mirhond, today this is common in Russia to play different camps against each other.

    http://slon.ru/russia/zakonchilas_li...-1140655.xhtml

    mirhond, I do understand that this is all good for internal politics and crowd control, but how you justify those Stalinist admirers to external audience? You don't like them, but they are your son of bitches, who are roaming around with your weapons and support in neighbouring country.
    1. It's called bonapartism, common practice.
    2. I stopped reading after this
    Благо и у Лукашенко, и у Назарбаева есть свое русскоязычное население, которое отныне воспринимается как мина замедленного действия: а вдруг им тоже захочется «федерализации» или «народных республик»?
    and I won't waste a second explaining why it's BS.
    3. I. personally, needn't to justify anything to anyone, (as much as you don't need to justify your compatriots honouring Estonian Waffen SS http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3585272.stm),
    what Russian establishment is going to do with this - I don't know and I don't care.
    Last edited by mirhond; 08-19-2014 at 07:07 PM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  4. #44
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Statues are more than history

    Citing Mirhond in part:
    3. I. personally, needn't to justify anything to anyone, (as much as you don't need to justify your compatriots honouring Estonian Waffen SS http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3585272.stm),
    what Russian establishment is going to do with this - I don't know and I don't care.
    The linked BBC report is from 2004. The statue was actually moved at the insistence of the Estonian government to a private location see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_of_Lihula

    When I toured Western Ukraine (after independence) a few years ago we learnt that statues were an essential sign of local history. Crossing from one town to another across a stream we came across a Stalin tank on a plinth and a communist era leaders statue - I think it was Stalin. A few miles away a new, local war memorial was inscribed for WW2 1939-1947 and our guide explained the last two years were for those who fought against Soviet rule.
    davidbfpo

  5. #45
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Citing Mirhond in part:

    The linked BBC report is from 2004. The statue was actually moved at the insistence of the Estonian government to a private location see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_of_Lihula
    So what? Estonians stopped honouring their SS veterans after that?
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  6. #46
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    mirhond, nice trick If you want to discuss the Estonian topic, make new thread.

    Today is the fact that strange mix of Russian nationalists, fascists, Stalinists, communists, internationalists, imperialists etc are making mess in Ukraine and some spin doctors try to pack all this in phrase "Русский мир" = "Russian world".

    For example:

    http://lj.rossia.org/users/anticompromat/2353247.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4798744.html#comments

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4799220.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4799528.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4671...read=272343438

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4682367.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4723742.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4681687.html

    http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/4624931.html

    Here is very good interview with Donets Peoples Republic (former) premier and Russian spin doctor Borodai. Covers more topics than that Stalinist's interview.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/novoro...eader-boroday/
    Last edited by kaur; 08-19-2014 at 10:10 PM.

  7. #47
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    So what? Estonians stopped honouring their SS veterans after that?
    Having done a little research I thought SWC readers should be aware that your link dated back to 2004 and that the Estonian state insisted on the statue being moved from a public to a private site. Somehow I expect those who do 'honour' SS veterans are a small minority.

    I know that in Russia there are those who demonstrate in public their admiration of Stalin and his approach - personally I find that distasteful.

    The current Russian state stance has little to recommend it. The Ukraine has immense problems without a neighbour interfering.
    davidbfpo

  8. #48
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    FSB guy Strelkov live and visiting sacred places in Russia. He is accompanied by famous Eurasian ideologue Dugin.

    http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1765761.html

    Last weekend there was conference in Yalta, Crimea. Conference was organised by Kremlin hardlineres. Main speaker was Putin's adviser in Eurasian Union question Glazjev. It was carried by antifascist banners. Poroshenko led Ukraine was called fascist regime. They had also couple supporters from Europe.

    http://nat-ali.livejournal.com/238399.html

    Roberto Fiore (born 15 April 1959 in Rome) is an Italian politician and a founding member of the European third position (terzo polo) movement which is against both communism and capitalism. He is the leader of the Italian party Forza Nuova. He self-identified as a fascist.[1]
    Luc Michel (born 1958) is a far-right Belgian political activist and supporter of the ideas of the Nazi-collaborator Jean-François Thiriart (having been his personal secretary[1]). He is the current leader and founder of the Parti Communautaire National-Européen as well as a former member of the néo-nazi movement Fédération d'action nationaliste et européenne.

    Michel is a supporter of National Bolshevism. He is a lawyer by profession, he has also written extensively on his political ideas. He has claimed to have the support of Gennady Zyuganov, leader of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, in this endeavour.[2] Previously he had also sought contact with Action directe as part of his moves to link the far left and the left.[1]
    What a crazy event!
    Last edited by kaur; 09-06-2014 at 10:23 PM.

  9. #49
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    Nationalism Just a Tool in Putin's Cynical Hands
    By Marlene Laruelle Sep. 17 2014

    Russia is thus using a nationalist motive, but does not have a nationalist agenda. The Kremlin's relationship to Russian minorities abroad is in fact context specific. As seen from the Kremlin's perspective, the existential threat of Maidan was what lost Ukraine the Crimean peninsula, not the stated fear of violence against ethnic Russians in Crimea. Kazakhstan also hosts a large Russian minority, but so long as the Kazakh regime plays according to Moscow's rules, the nationalist argument will not be applied to it.
    Indeed, while the separatists have many Russians among their ranks, only a few hundred actual nationalists were ready to throw in their lot with the Donbass insurgency. The population's support is mostly oriented around a narrative of humanitarian catastrophe and the need to secure Russia's interests. Bellicose postures calling for war with Ukraine or the West are in the minority.
    The process of "normalization" of Donbass as a second Transnistria is under way. But the main boomerang effect may not be felt by the insurgents, but by the ideological "nurturers" of Novorossiya. Both the Izborsky Club and the political Orthodox lobbyists have consolidated their visibility in public space and cultivated networks of influence rising high in the state hierarchy with the hope of making nationalism, whatever its doctrinal contents, a new state ideology for Russia.
    The Kremlin has been successful so far in keeping nationalist forces in check, but rising nationalism of various strains has been an undeniable trend for many years. As the regime needs more mobilizing narratives, it could have to unleash some of the most popular nationalists, without being sure its cooptation tool will continue to function.
    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile...ds/507317.html

  10. #50
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default Speech By Putin

    Wasn't sure where to put this so if this is the wrong thread feel free to move or have it moved. It is a speech given by Putin recently where he states that Russia must develop their own spiritual,cultural and national identity. Neither Soviet nor liberal extremism as he calls it.
    http://rt.com/politics/official-word...onal-idea-142/

  11. #51
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Wasn't sure where to put this so if this is the wrong thread feel free to move or have it moved. It is a speech given by Putin recently where he states that Russia must develop their own spiritual,cultural and national identity. Neither Soviet nor liberal extremism as he calls it.
    http://rt.com/politics/official-word...onal-idea-142/
    Slap, that speech is a year old. But for a number of years now, the nationalists in the Russian elite have been pushing for a unique and separate development of Russia; a kind of neither 'east nor west' type of thing. For many centuries, one of the fundamental debates in Russian identity has been wrestling with is whether Russia is 'European' or 'Asian', or 'Slavic' or 'Western'. Same theme. I don't think it's fully understood in the West that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a traumatic experience; it simultaneously injured and inspired Russian nationalism.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  12. #52
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    Russia to Use Social Media in Fight Against Pseudoscience, Report Says
    By Alexey Eremenko Oct. 07 2014 21:00
    The Russian government allotted 30 million rubles ($750,000) for a social media campaign to combat rampant pseudoscience, Izvestia reported Tuesday.
    The money, which will go toward a campaign on popular social media sites LiveJournal, Twitter, Facebook and VKontakte, is also meant to fund publications in the mass media and leaflets against pseudoscience, as well as lessons and journalistic workshops for students, the newspaper said, citing the Education and Science Ministry.

    No direct statistics are available for pseudoscience in Russia, but 45 percent of the population believe in the existence of a global conspiracy to run the planet, state-run pollster VTsIOM said last month.
    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile...le/508589.html

  13. #53
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    Interview with Russian Security Council head Patrushev. Putin's close friend from Leningrad times and former FSB director. In the original article in Russian words USA and American were used over 50 times.

    http://rt.com/politics/196456-russia...rushev-global/
    Last edited by kaur; 10-19-2014 at 10:28 AM.

  14. #54
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    http://news.mail.ru/video/229498/

    A man got prison term for an anecdote. looks like "old good" Soviet tradition returns. An anecdote is defined as hate speech, while it's just an ancient deja moo (but somewhat funny)
    The whole situation is still the stuff of a joke, but...

    http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2614961
    Putin defined "antinational thinking" - call for owerthowing an existent regime falls into scale.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-20-2014 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Edited due to language. PM to author
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  15. #55
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    mirhond, back to golden era habits?

  16. #56
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    Beyond Putin? Nationalism and Xenophobia in Russian Public Opinion

    Published 11-25-2014

    (The Washington Quarterly) The role of nationalism within the Russian public is an under- examined but potentially important aspect of the crisis surrounding Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its continuing involvement in eastern and southern regions of Ukraine. As commentators have sought to comprehend President Vladimir Putin’s motives, many have asserted or assumed that such actions enjoy tremendous Russian public support. Indeed, public opinion polls from Russia indicate that Putin’s popularity soared in the wake of the Crimean annexation and that large majorities have supported the government’s policies in Ukraine, sympathizing with the Kremlin’s negative portrayals of U.S. motives and actions.1 However, it is not clear whether this wave of public support is a fleeting “rally around the flag” phenomenon or the result of an organic, deeper tendency toward nationalism and xenophobia in the Russian public

    http://twq.elliott.gwu.edu/beyond-pu...public-opinion

  17. #57
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    In Ukraine topic I did mention DPR unit called СССР/Soviet Union. The leader explained the name with desire to stability that existed during SU time. Today Russian business daily published 1 poll about nostalgia to SU. 13% want this.

    Надежд на Евразийский союз тоже мало: постоянно идут торговые войны с Белоруссией, поэтому все тенденции очень разнонаправленные и «у людей в голове каша», поясняет Бызов: «Те 13%, которые хотят обратно в СССР, — это сложившиеся и выросшие там люди. Сейчас уже выросло несколько поколений, для которых Советский Союз — просто романтический образ, и они считают возврат туда нереальным».
    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/new...dnej-tyazhesti

  18. #58
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    mirhond's golden age in pictures.

    http://visualhistory.livejournal.com/902413.html

  19. #59
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    Seems even Putin has a hard time with history?


    Bloomberg News

    Putin’s Crimea-as-Jerusalem Myth Baffles Russian Historians

    By Ilya Arkhipov and Stepan Kravchenko December 05, 2014

    President Vladimir Putin’s elevation of Crimea to the status of Russia’s Holy Land has prompted puzzlement and scorn from historians and commentators.

    Crimea for Russians is “like the Temple Mount in Jerusalem” for Muslims and Jews, Putin said, and would be regarded this way “from now on and forever.” Vladimir the Great was baptized in Chersonesus, Crimea, an event in 988 that’s considered to be the beginning of the Christianization of Kievan Rus, a precursor state to Russia and Ukraine, Putin explained in his annual address yesterday to parliament and top officials in Moscow.

    “Prince Vladimir was Kievan, not Muscovite, and this probably only underlines the right of Kiev and not Moscow to Crimea,” Andrei Zubov, a Russian historian and political scientist, said in an interview.

    Putin’s new Crimea myth added a religious aspect to Russia’s confrontation with the U.S. and the European Union after it annexed the peninsula from Ukraine in March. EU and U.S. sanctions have helped to push the Russian economy to the brink of recession as it wrestles with a 39 percent slump in the value of the ruble against the dollar this year and a one-third decline in the oil price. Russia depends on oil and gas revenue for about half of its federal budget.

    Historians argue over whether Vladimir was baptized in Vasilev, near Kiev, rather than Chersonesus, said Zubov, who lost his post at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations in March after he compared Putin’s takeover of Crimea to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s annexation of Austria in 1938.

    ‘Incorrect’ Comparison

    From a religious viewpoint, “Kiev is a much more important place for Russian Orthodox pilgrims than Crimea,” said Deacon Andrei Kuraev, a theologian and blogger. It’s “incorrect” to compare Crimea with the Temple Mount, the holiest place on Earth for Jews, he said.

  20. #60
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    Couple days ago there was small scale meeting in the centre of Moscow. Despite the size, it showed very well that Kremlin's methods have not changed. Once there was Surkov made youth movement Nashi. Group of Nashis established Stopham (Стопхам) movement. This is financed by Kremlin too. Now you can see Stopham movement faces under the name of "Antimaidan" organisation. Is it financed by Kremlin

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7bFCFwIIAA8cGs.jpg:large

    Visitors vith Russian language skills can read how this kind of shows are run from here.

    http://b0ltai.org/2015/01/15/934/
    Last edited by kaur; 01-17-2015 at 11:53 AM.

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