Iraq: Out of the desert into Mosul (closed)

[KingJaja]

Organizing conflict around religious identity doesn’t sound ludicrous at all. And, yeah, there has been a growth over the past decade of those seeking to reestablish the caliphate. But do you seriously think we’re about to see a transnational Crusades-type conflict in the next ten years? How would any attempt to make that happen not get splintered by nationalist and/or more local and/or ethnic identity issues?

I’m not saying that the members of the self-proclaimed Islamic State are not murderous bastards or anything, but even calling them the IS is giving them too much political credit. They need to be taken dead seriously, but there’s a certain Yellow Peril reactionaryism to a lot of the chatter about them.

I don't know, but political rhetoric in quite of few key nations could lead to serious trouble. The fault lines already exist.

[Bill Moore]

In Jomini's book, "The Art of War" he addresses this in the section in article VII of his book, titled "War of Opinion."

Jomini thinks along the line of Bob's World, when he states ,

religion is the pretext to obtain political power, and the war is not really one of the dogmas. The successors of Mohammed cared more to extend their empire than to preach the Koran,

He then accused the crusaders of thinking more of expanding trade than spreading Christianity.

Final quote

The dogma sometimes is not only a pretext, but is a powerful ally; for it excites the ardor of the people, and also creates a party.

Regardless, we have a security problem on our hands that is expanding. It is unlikely we will be able to address the root political, social, and economic causes of which I'm sure there are many, so our focus IMO is reducing the threat through military action in ways that mitigate further agitating the underlying phenomena that motivates this behavior. No one said it would be easy, but ignoring the problem because we can't address root causes in my view is a dangerous cop out.

[OUTLAW 09]

In Jomini's book, "The Art of War" he addresses this in the section in article VII of his book, titled "War of Opinion."

Jomini thinks along the line of Bob's World, when he states ,



He then accused the crusaders of thinking more of expanding trade than spreading Christianity.

Final quote



Regardless, we have a security problem on our hands that is expanding. It is unlikely we will be able to address the root political, social, and economic causes of which I'm sure there are many, so our focus IMO is reducing the threat through military action in ways that mitigate further agitating the underlying phenomena that motivates this behavior. No one said it would be easy, but ignoring the problem because we can't address root causes in my view is a dangerous cop out.

Bill---you are now starting to see what I comment often about the Iraqi Sunni side--meaning when one fully understands what one is truly seeing then and only then can one move forward---we the US military never did fully understand what we were seeing.

jcurtis's comments are great---why because he fully saw the impact of the video--that is what they want--this group under Baghdadi is far more troubling because he is a thinking adapting and intelligent Amir--spiritual leader, a solid field commander and a great tactician.

That is why I keep going back and asking---what did we miss in Abu G and Bucca---it was there in 2005-2009 to see why did we the IC not see it and still do not see it?

It is also why I warned here to not start a bombing campaign as it would and has caused exactly what I anticipated would happen---they are far different than AQ---they can and will strike Americans--as single targets as that is the COG for the US=--not attacks on the homeland not attacks on towers--but a steady attack against Americans walking do the streets of Helsinki, Berlin, Hong Kong---literally anywhere in the world and no amount of CIA/DIA/NSA/DHS can hinder that. We are so easy to read thus the taking of US hostages long before they crossed the border into Iraq.

Had we not bombed the American would still be alive it is as simple as that as brutal as it sounds---AND now there is talk about more combat personnel into Iraq. And we as the US cannot get a straight policy on a far deeper threat---the new Russia/China which impacts us over the longer haul more so than Baghdadi ever will.

This we the US have not seen before in this "supposedly" GWOT.

There will be no defeating them---it is a long haul now and they are getting better and better at governing--the missing piece.

The former Iraq now is a true satellite of the Iranians and to a degree occupied by the Iranians which is what Baghdadi wanted in the first place--this is his Sunni Shia clash and notice the KSA outside of protecting their borders from returning fighters and hardening the internal security has not uttered a single comment against the Caliphate outside of the first series of comments.

KSA silence is an indicator.