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Thread: Rhodesian COIN (consolidated thread, inc original RLI)

  1. #81
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    Professor Woods' website has three detailed graphics that explain how the Fire Force concept developed, as well as an excellent artcle on D coy, RAR, that I had not come across before.

    http://www.jrtwood.com/default.asp

    Enjoy.

  2. #82
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Rhodesian COIN at the strategic level

    In the UK published journal Small Wars & Insurgencies, June 2007, is an article 'The Wretched of the Empire: Politics, Ideology and COIN in Rhodesia 1965-80'. The author Dr Mike Evans lived in Rhodesia / Zimbabwe until the early 1980's and now works for the Australian Defence Forces.

    Worth a read for the context of the Rhodesian military experience and the political factors involved.

    davidbfpo

  3. #83
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    "Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper

  4. #84
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Great Links Rifleman, especially the second one. Lowest recorded parachute jump 200 feet

  5. #85
    Council Member Rhodesian's Avatar
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    Default 200 foot parachute jump

    Great Links Rifleman, especially the second one. Lowest recorded parachute jump 200 feet
    In this instance the load was dropped down the length of a rising valley, with the pilot of the Dakota apparently failing to account for the rising ground. The first ouens out the door were ok, but not surprisingly injuries generally increased the later the troopers exited the bus. They were not very happy!

    As an aside, probably the highest parachute-less "jump" was completed by Des D and his stick in 3 Commando, who were "evicted" from a chopper above tree height in Mozambique. Having crashed through the branches to land in a very winded heap, he became aware of guerillas running in panic all around him. He was`nt very happy either!

    Oh how we loved the airforce . . . .

    I.R.

  6. #86
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Rhodesian War (not RLI specific)

    A classic account written 25yrs by Paul Moorcraft 'Chimurenga: The War in Rhodesia' is being re-published as 'The Rhodesian War: Thirty Years On'. This is from a meeting to discuss the book in London this Friday at RUSI: http://www.rusi.org/events/ref:E47F2626F13096/

    I've still got the original and will buy the new edition. Update in a few months time as my pile of reading grows.

    davidbfpo

  7. #87
    Council Member Rhodesian's Avatar
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    Default Selous Scouts


  8. #88
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Human or Technical?

    Elsewhere others have commented on the Woodward book, partly on the oh-so secret programme: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=6005

    On another website (http://www.schneier.com/blog/ ) the Woodward exposure has little credibility and some accuse himn of seeking publicity for his book.

    IR alludes to the Selous Scouts; from my reading there was little technical involvement, rather a lot of human skill in persauding (being polite) newly captured nationalist fighters to change sides.

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-10-2008 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Add alternative thread and then the other website

  9. #89
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Found this at Danger Room. http://blog.wired.com/defense/files/...Continuous.pdf scary stuff

  10. #90
    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Post Well lets look at it this way

    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Found this at Danger Room. http://blog.wired.com/defense/files/...Continuous.pdf scary stuff
    The question has really never been could it be done so much as it, is, will, and should be just on whom and how it is used. Protocol for this needs to be VERY implicit in its use otherwise it will simply turn into one more tool which can be used by those who may not hold themselves to (shall we say (righteous) implementation).

    Anything developed to be used with the best intentions also carry's the with it the possibility of mis-application for ulterior motives
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcustis View Post
    I had the occasion to correspond with an RLI veteran (who shall remain anonymous), and asked him a few questions to round out my fairly broad understanding of Fire Force Ops in Rhodesia.

    I'm always curious as to how the various Rhodesian security forces performed on the ground, as some of their lessons may be important as the Marine Corps looks to refine its Distributed Operations concept.

    My questions, and the very in-depth reply, are posted below in 2 parts:
    Initialy we wore shorts, T shirts and clandestine footwear (Black joggers with a plain sole) during our operations, including our para jumps. In 1978 the late Brigadeer Parker who was also a former CO of the RLI visited us at Mtoko where we were based as fire force. (1 Commando) He decided that he would like to do a training para jump with us wearing the standard dress as stated above. There was a fairly strong breeze blowing during the jump and he got a bit banged up hitting the ground. He then gave the instructions that we will not be allowed to jump in the same attire ever again. This was an order that we could not disobey. The camoflage jump suit was then issued to all para troopers.
    During the earlier part of Fire Force we very seldom took cover, but preferred to walk or run straight at the enemy whilst firing at any target that presented itself. This worked well against the Zanu terrorists as they were not as aggressive as the Zapu terrorists. The Zapu were recruited mainly from the Matabele tribe which were of Zulu descent. During these attacks we were fortunate to have the K-Car armed with a 20mm cannon firing explosive rounds as air cover. Sometimes we also had prop driven earoplanes (Similar to the Vampire jet, I forgot the name) who dropped Frantan bombs (Rhodesian equavelent of Napalm bombs) and 37mm Sneb rockets.
    The K-Car commander would orchestrate and co-ordinate the complete attack from the air. The sweep line would be informed if they were near any stop group. The stop groups were normally dropped off by helicopter, and would try and get into the best defensive and protected position they could without decreasing there fighting ability.

  12. #92
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Rhodesian lessons for Afghanistan?

    The UK comment blogsite: http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com has an article today on the UK's military role in Afghanistan and cites the lessons learnt by Rhodesia. Refers to a RAND report from 1991, which I'd not seen before, although my interest in that COIN war abated many years ago: http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/2005/R3998.pdf . The authors include Bruce Hoffman (who I respect as an analyst).

    I am sure Jon Custis will comment (if he can).

    davidbfpo

  13. #93
    Council Member Spud's Avatar
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    Default Continent Ablaze

    Apart from the books already mentioned I've found Continent Ablaze: The insurgency wars in Africa 1960 to the present by John W. Turner to be pretty useful as a first port of call. There's a chapter on Rhodesia and then some of the nearby similar actions (Mozambique, Southern Africa etc).

    There's also a fascinating thread over at militaryphotos.net that has a range of personal accounts/images (intersperesed with the normal train spotters) to help visualise the whole thing

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=134312

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    Default hi

    hello folks.. does this unit still recruits. foreinirs into this unit.. I am very excited.. let me know whats the max age for this.. quickly

  15. #95
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baluraj007 View Post
    hello folks.. does this unit still recruits. foreinirs into this unit.. I am very excited.. let me know whats the max age for this.. quickly
    Since Rhodesia ended with the beginning of Zimbabwe, you are out of luck for this one.

    Tom

  16. #96
    Council Member BayonetBrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Since Rhodesia ended with the beginning of Zimbabwe, you are out of luck for this one.
    Tom
    Just for effect, I would've worded it as
    "Since Rhodesia ended with the beginning of Zimbabwe in 1980, you are out of luck for this one."
    Brant
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  17. #97
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default War & Soldiers Understanding the past, building the future

    This year the British-Zimbabwe Society (BZS) are devoting their annual research day, 20th June 2009, in Oxford, to looking at the issues via Rhodesia / Zimbabwe. Follow the link for details: http://www.britain-zimbabwe.org.uk/RDprog09.htm

    Non-BZS members are welcome and these research days can be good.

    davidbfpo

  18. #98
    Council Member Rhodesian's Avatar
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    No man you gents got it all wrong, Rhodesia was a country, Zimbabwe Ruins is its national symbol, if he`s buying the beer he can sign up by placing his X here ....... Mine`s a Castle!

    Ya ok it was a good try. I.R.

  19. #99
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodesian View Post
    No man you gents got it all wrong, Rhodesia was a country, Zimbabwe Ruins is its national symbol, if he`s buying the beer he can sign up by placing his X here ....... Mine`s a Castle!

    Ya ok it was a good try. I.R.
    A noble one at that...

  20. #100
    Council Member Rhodesian's Avatar
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    Default Scouting

    Sirs

    The following link will be of interest to those of us whose days of running over mountains has somewhat been superceded by the struggle to get out of the arm chair for the next beer. It gives insight into the methods and founding ideas into "finding" a terrorist, before the RLI or others went in by chopper and killed him. There is a suggestion that some of the Selous Scout concept came from Vietnam, perhaps those of you know more on this would like to comment as this was news to me, not being American or particularly familiar with that war? I can say that the author of this particular article is well respected within my "circle of flatulence."

    Cheers
    I.R.

    http://choppertech.blogspot.com/2009...us-scouts.html

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