Islam, Catholisism, religion, and conflict

[Bob's World]

Ok, for all of you who are convinced they fight because of their religious differences rather than in pursuit of power or to throw off a system of governance designed and implemented by one group to oppress the other, riddle me this:

Why is it that people of these same diverse religions live together in natural harmony when these inequities of illegitimacy, power and opportunity are resolved??

[slapout9]

As jcustis said there various sects now and during the Barbary wars. We found some good Muslims and with God and a few Marines we brought them to the curb and signed a treaty. The Navy helped to. Keep them in line forget about reforming them.

[J Singh]

Ok, for all of you who are convinced they fight because of their religious differences rather than in pursuit of power or to throw off a system of governance designed and implemented by one group to oppress the other, riddle me this:

Why is it that people of these same diverse religions live together in natural harmony when these inequities of illegitimacy, power and opportunity are resolved??

One would need an example of where that which is described in the question, actually exists, in order to consider a response to it.

[Bob's World]

Seriously?

How about Catholics and Protestants virtually every where?

[carl]

Seriously?

How about Catholics and Protestants virtually every where?

Virtually everywhere...?

RCs and the Prods settled that thing a long time ago and when they did, the settlement was largely preserved I think because of western cultural environment, which of course was influenced by the nature of the religion itself along with the Enlightenment and all that. Slaughtering Episcopalians just isn't done. Unless that Episcopalian wanders into Raqqa where he will have to flee, convert, dhimmi or die.

I'll riddle something back. Suppose IS achieves the supremacy they dream of and establish an unchallenged caliphate that runs from the Atlantic coast to Indian Ocean, north and south as far as your imagination lets them go; do you think they will allow freedom of worship? How long do you figure it will take?

[J Singh]

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Why is it that people of these same diverse religions live together in natural harmony when these inequities of illegitimacy, power and opportunity are resolved??

Diverse religions or sects of the same religion?
Natural harmony is a term begging for a propounded definition.
The emphasized text does not comport with any geopolitical region of which one is aware.

How about Catholics and Protestants virtually every where?

Both have been subsumed, generally, by Western secularism following a long and oft bloody struggle between the partisans (going back to the issue of the Western sociohistorical experience). Of course, "virtually everywhere" still has its flash points.

More than 700 mainly young Protestant men have been convicted of rioting in protests linked to parades and the union jack dispute in Belfast, it has emerged. The news came ahead of a potentially violent standoff involving Ulster loyalists and a banned Orange Order march in Belfast. As loyalists were preparing to light their bonfires on the eve of the 12 July – the climax of the marching season – Northern Ireland's justice minister, David Ford, told the Guardian that he was concerned that more and more young Protestants were joining the ranks of those already convicted of public order offences.

[jcustis]

I see where COL Jones is going with his point, and it is very valid on many angles.

The Protestant-Catholic dramas of Northern Ireland were not about the raw differences between the two sects of Christianity, but rather the privileges and benefits afforded those who were from a particular sect. Definitely inequalities of legitimacy, power and opportunity unresolved.

[Bob's World]

We are too quick to focus on the sizzle, rather than the steak.

"The sizzle" is those distinguishing factors, be it shared grievance (powerless peasants vs entitled landholders in Asia and virtually every place colonized by Spain); or some characteristic such as race, tribe or sect that has served to determine who is in power and who is out of power.

"The Steak" is the real issue: Governance and Power. When governance is not equitable and when no effective legal means within the context of the culture of the people involved exists to address inequities, or illegitimacies, or flat out abuses of power - Revolutionary energy will build and teams will form along the lines that divide the issue.

Power. When such conditions exist all manner of opportunists will arise to exploit that popular energy to coerce change upon the offending system of governance. Sometimes these are honorable leaders who represent the greater interests of the people. Washington, Ghandi, King to name three. Usually these are individuals and organizations who are either self-serving or seek to advance some darker purpose. If you build it, they will come. Governance builds these conditions, and they always come eventually. They always come.

And governance (and many of those paid experts who advise governance) almost always blames it on the sizzle. This is why so many Kings who ignore these conditions end up with their heads in baskets or on pikes. This is also why these conditions of instability tend to keep coming back even when some insurgent is "defeated." The insurgent is not the insurgency.

[carl]

We are too quick to focus on the sizzle, rather than the steak.

"The sizzle" is those distinguishing factors, be it shared grievance (powerless peasants vs entitled landholders in Asia and virtually every place colonized by Spain); or some characteristic such as race, tribe or sect that has served to determine who is in power and who is out of power.

"The Steak" is the real issue: Governance and Power. When governance is not equitable and when no effective legal means within the context of the culture of the people involved exists to address inequities, or illegitimacies, or flat out abuses of power - Revolutionary energy will build and teams will form along the lines that divide the issue.

Power. When such conditions exist all manner of opportunists will arise to exploit that popular energy to coerce change upon the offending system of governance. Sometimes these are honorable leaders who represent the greater interests of the people. Washington, Ghandi, King to name three. Usually these are individuals and organizations who are either self-serving or seek to advance some darker purpose. If you build it, they will come. Governance builds these conditions, and they always come eventually. They always come.

And governance (and many of those paid experts who advise governance) almost always blames it on the sizzle. This is why so many Kings who ignore these conditions end up with their heads in baskets or on pikes. This is also why these conditions of instability tend to keep coming back even when some insurgent is "defeated." The insurgent is not the insurgency.

All well and good but if you are unfortunate enough to be under the IS and you are a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Zoroastrian, a Sikh, a Wiccan or any sort of disapproved of variety of Muslim you have a choice of flee, convert, dhimmi or die.

That's religion.