Page 13 of 239 FirstFirst ... 311121314152363113 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 4773

Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #241
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Russian TV RF recycles 2013 Kazakhztan explosion to fake Ukrainian missile attack in Donbas.

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/2...ack-in-donbas/ … pic.twitter.com

  2. #242
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Major announcement from the Ukraine---will be interesting to see response of or the lack of a US/EU/NATO response.


    Ukraine Reporter @StateOfUkraine

    #Ukraine has just declared that the eastern part of the country has now been officially/openly invaded by #Russia

    And the news just keeps on rolling---while the US was so intent on bombing the IS they simply "forgot" Putin---and that is called a strategy?

    BREAKING Per #Ukraine MFA official announcement #Russian army forces seized Ukraine BGCP that made custom inspection. http://mfa.gov.ua/ua/press-center/co...rdonu-ukrajini

    Ukraine calls Russia's movement of trucks across the border a 'direct invasion': http://yhoo.it/1tyd7FS pic.twitter.com/xymsx4c9qp

    #BREAKINGFOOTAGE THE MOMENT OF #RUSSIA OFFICIALLY STARTING THE INVASION OF #UKRAINE.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7aoRuyqH0Q … pic.twitter.com/6jpRGCHAcS

    #Ukraine security chief Nalivaichenko: "military personnel r driving the Russian trucks, which are military vehicles" http://www.unian.net/politics/954254...ainyi-sbu.html

    BREAKING #UKR MFA -The fact the convoy wasn't inspected nor is Red Cross aware of the content is sign of internvetion http://mfa.gov.ua/ua/press-center/co...rdonu-ukrajini

    Responsibility for convoy safety lies with #Russia,terrorists shelling possible route,provocations not excluded - MFA http://mfa.gov.ua/ua/press-center/co...ni#lang-select
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-22-2014 at 12:17 PM.

  3. #243
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Let's see where things stand;

    1. Ukrainians have both killed and captured Russian airborne personnel, IFV, and documents from the 76th AB Div.
    2. Russian T90 tanks were involved in a major fight inside the Ukraine and only the Russian Army has T90 tanks.
    3. NATO has confirmed Russian artillery together with their crews firing inside the Ukraine at Ukrainian troops.
    4. The Ukrainian SBU has killed and captured a number of Russian SF/GRU recon teams inside the Ukraine.
    5. Russia openly violated any agreement they made on the "aid" convoy and what Obama bluntly told them last week.
    6. The leader of the DNR stated last week n a public interview Russia trained 1200 fighters and has supplied them with 120 APCs and 20 tanks.

    If one reads the international definition of what constitutes a declaration of war and what constitutes what an invasion is defined as----Just what now is the US strategy outside of talking and threatening more sanctions?

    It seems the US is more interested in bombing the IS and not focusing on central Europe as are the Germans who want to ship anti tank weapons to the Kurds for use against ---what kind of IS armored vehicles do they currently have in their inventory vs say the Ukrainian Army that is seeing countless Russian APCs, T64, T72s and now T90s and they are killing UA personnel.

    Does this make sense to anyone?

    I know we discuss the need for strategies here---but can anyone describe for me the current Russian strategy?

  4. #244
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    8 Russian Paratroopers of the 76th Division from Pskov in Critical Condition at Luhansk Hospital

    http://en.censor.net.ua/n299191

    And the day ends in Europe with this report coming from CBS today:

    Charlie KayeVerified account
    ‏@CharlieKayeCBS BREAKING. Pentagon: "Russia must remove its vehicles from the territory of Ukraine immediately."

    Let's see if the US WH and Obama have anything to say by say 0900 European time Saturday and if Merkel in fact now goes to the Ukraine as her position in this game has been weakened as the Ukrainians currently are not so sure of the German overall position with regards to Russia.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-22-2014 at 06:02 PM.

  5. #245
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Appears critique of the Russian move has hit home as this was released this evening by RIA for the reasons they raced the aid to the separatists.

    An interesting statement to say the least and designed to blunt any coming EU/NATO/US sanctions and political moves.

    Notice they keep using the term international humanitarian norms but not defines just what those intl laws are---again goes back to they massive need to have everything "legal".

    MOSCOW, August 22 (RIA Novosti) – Russia insists that its decision to speed up humanitarian cargo delivery to eastern Ukraine without waiting for Kiev’s formal approval was morally right and fully in line with the international norms, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Friday.

    “We act fully in line with norms of the international humanitarian law,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said in a statement.

    “We cannot and will not tolerate the plight of people living in protesting South-Eastern Ukraine,” the deputy foreign minister added.

    “We are sure that we did the right thing. And we accuse Kiev and its backers of repeatedly putting their political interests, which are anti-Russian in essence, above the basic human values of kindness and compassion,” Ryabkov continued.

  6. #246
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    This appears to be a new Russian reason for moving the aid convoy over the border without asking anyone.

    Seems the Russian "story" is changing hourly.

    From the Russian Ambassador to the UNSC:


    The items which are perishable, says #Churkin - 'particularly the food for children'


    #Churkin at #UNSC - 'some of the aid items are perishable so we told the #Ukraine authorities 'we cannot procrastinate any longer''

  7. #247
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    8 Russian Paratroopers of the 76th Division from Pskov in Critical Condition at Luhansk Hospital

    http://en.censor.net.ua/n299191

    And the day ends in Europe with this report coming from CBS today:

    Charlie KayeVerified account
    ‏@CharlieKayeCBS BREAKING. Pentagon: "Russia must remove its vehicles from the territory of Ukraine immediately."

    Let's see if the US WH and Obama have anything to say by say 0900 European time Saturday and if Merkel in fact now goes to the Ukraine as her position in this game has been weakened as the Ukrainians currently are not so sure of the German overall position with regards to Russia.
    Reference the Russian airborne WIAs:


    Jerry @jerrym10000 · 6h

    N Stanko, HromadskeTV: 8 #Russian paratroopers from Pskov in difficult condition in #Lugansk hospital +30 transported to hospital in #Rostov

  8. #248
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Rear Admiral Ihor Kabanenko: Three powerful groups of Russian troops have been identified

    Posted on August 22, 2014 by chervonaruta


    By Rear Admiral Ihor Kabanenko, Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine
    08.22.2014
    Translated and edited by Voices of Ukraine

    Three powerful groups of Russian troops have been identified, who are in full combat readiness at our borders and in the Crimea: “North,” “Center” and “South.” The movement of troops demonstrates their preparation for something. This “something” may soon be:
    1.The continuation of the “back and forth” near our borders with the aim of provocative and intimidating methods while at the same time of expanding the zones of instability with the use of Russian special forces (commandos).
    2.Invasion under the guise of “peacekeeping operations” with the goal of mastering Dnipropetrovsk (main), Odessa and Kyiv occupations of the respective territories of Ukraine.

    All this will be accompanied by an information-psychological operation aimed at our military and population.

  9. #249
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    This appears to be a new Russian reason for moving the aid convoy over the border without asking anyone.

    Seems the Russian "story" is changing hourly.

    From the Russian Ambassador to the UNSC:


    The items which are perishable, says #Churkin - 'particularly the food for children'


    #Churkin at #UNSC - 'some of the aid items are perishable so we told the #Ukraine authorities 'we cannot procrastinate any longer''
    Another Russian FM excuse for the aid trucks crossing without ICR/Ukrainian approval:


    Daniel Sandford ✔ @BBCDanielS

    Tonight at Ten: A Lukashevich of @mfa_russia tells me "Kiev has desperately attempted to derail the very important humanitarian operation."

  10. #250
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    "Turn left at Greenland." - Ringo Starr
    Posts
    965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw
    If one reads the international definition of what constitutes a declaration of war and what constitutes what an invasion is defined as----Just what now is the US strategy outside of talking and threatening more sanctions?
    The U.S. doesn't have a strategy outside of sanctions. The traditional tool - military coercion - is ill advised in this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw
    It seems the US is more interested in bombing the IS and not focusing on central Europe as are the Germans who want to ship anti tank weapons to the Kurds for use against ---what kind of IS armored vehicles do they currently have in their inventory vs say the Ukrainian Army that is seeing countless Russian APCs, T64, T72s and now T90s and they are killing UA personnel.
    Because bombing IS doesn't invite further escalation from a nuclear armed state that is also capable of spoiling U.S. interests in other parts of the globe. Ukraine is not the exclusive or primary interest of the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw
    Does this make sense to anyone?
    Yes - the Obama administration is not interested in escalating the conflict between the U.S. and Russia to include acts of violence between the two states. Russian acts of war in Ukraine is one thing - inviting military action between the U.S. and Russia is another. This is something I've repeatedly mentioned in this thread and others regarding escalating the conflict.

    There are still no viable proposals made to coercivelly reverse Russian gains in Ukraine. Do you have any? The Kiev offensive is probably pretty close to triggering further Russian escalation - we've already seen steady escalation despite sanctions and condemnations. So I'm confident that we are pretty close to a negotiated settlement, with the next round of talks to take place in the coming days between the Russian and Ukrainian heads of state.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  11. #251
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    So I'm confident that we are pretty close to a negotiated settlement, with the next round of talks to take place in the coming days between the Russian and Ukrainian heads of state.
    Come back to this statement in 7 days time and 14 days time and lets see how you did. Then in one months time after that.

    Can you do that?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  12. #252
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Just what now is the US strategy outside of talking and threatening more sanctions?
    Probably the same as it's been all along: focus on economic action and keep actions as multilateral as possible. What are their options?
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  13. #253
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    Probably the same as it's been all along: focus on economic action and keep actions as multilateral as possible. What are their options?
    Money and weapons to the Ukrainians. They have all the men and fighting spirit they need already. An announcement that weapons are coming would cause Vlad to have a kiniption and threaten all sorts of things. But he ain't gonna start WWIII over some anti-tank missiles. And with money and weapons to the Ukrainians the potential Russki body count goes way up. That is one thing Vlad hasn't had to deal with yet, lots of actual Russki soldiers getting killed. Nobody cares about the losers they have been using so far. If those guys die their local communities are probably better off for it. But if their contract professional soldiers start dying, things change.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  14. #254
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    An announcement that weapons are coming would cause Vlad to have a kiniption and threaten all sorts of things. But he ain't gonna start WWIII over some anti-tank missiles.
    Starting WW3 isn't really an issue, since he knows the US is not going to fight Russia over the Ukraine. An announcement might suggest to him that it would be a good idea to speed up his timetable and act decisively before the proposed deliveries can take effect.

    The Ukrainians seem to be doing reasonably well on the military side on their own, and of course overt US support would be an open excuse for the Russians to escalate their support.

    We've heard a lot of talk about more Russian troops and equipment moving in, but is there any news suggesting a change in the momentum of the fighting?
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  15. #255
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    The U.S. doesn't have a strategy outside of sanctions. The traditional tool - military coercion - is ill advised in this situation.



    Because bombing IS doesn't invite further escalation from a nuclear armed state that is also capable of spoiling U.S. interests in other parts of the globe. Ukraine is not the exclusive or primary interest of the U.S.



    Yes - the Obama administration is not interested in escalating the conflict between the U.S. and Russia to include acts of violence between the two states. Russian acts of war in Ukraine is one thing - inviting military action between the U.S. and Russia is another. This is something I've repeatedly mentioned in this thread and others regarding escalating the conflict.

    There are still no viable proposals made to coercivelly reverse Russian gains in Ukraine. Do you have any? The Kiev offensive is probably pretty close to triggering further Russian escalation - we've already seen steady escalation despite sanctions and condemnations. So I'm confident that we are pretty close to a negotiated settlement, with the next round of talks to take place in the coming days between the Russian and Ukrainian heads of state.
    So AP let's see your arguments that go like this;

    1. Russia is a nuclear power and therefore "owns" central and eastern Europe to do as they will because we the US have no what business interests to the tune of billions which also drives the US economy and we the US have never claimed that we are not somehow leading the western world nor are member of the Altantic Council/NATO and oh by the way we signed a memorandum protecting the sovereignty of the Ukraine that now when we are called out on we what simply say it is not our problem

    2. IS is not a threat to the US ---a threat to the existing borders of four countries in the ME yes they are but it is not up to the US to settle that particular area and if you would follow the IS thread you would fully understand I have been along with two others have often stated we fully never understood Iraq nor QJBR/AQI/ISIL/IS and what bombing trucks in the desert is more important than what...?

    3. was it not you yourself that argued yes if we just appease and negotiate and understand the Russia desires to reinstate the Soviet Union this whole thing will simply disappear---you never have seemed to fully understand the ethnic nationalist imperialism that Putin and the elites around him have called into being---some would call it a new form of state fasicism

    5. some commenters here state often populations have the right to define their own rule of law and good governance but when a population stands up and states their desire and a neighboring country feels "threatened" by that and decides I will unleash my newest military doctrine to curb their stated ROL/GG that is what something to "appease"

    Come on AP "understand" the world you claim to be "seeing".

    Also still awaiting your stated "negotiating solutions"---and my response was what---"negotiate what".

    And AP what was just pulled by Russia yesterday---again my response negotiate what? there have been five different sets of arguments coming out of Moscow by 21:00 last night on why they pulled their aid stunt.

    Again go back and Google the terms invasion and what defines a declaration of war.

    Go back a reread the Russian New Generation Warfare and then tell me what Phase of that eight phase doctrine Russia is in currently.

    Go back and reread the term political warfare and then try to explain to me you are not seeing that in the current Russian actions.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-23-2014 at 06:50 AM.

  16. #256
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    Probably the same as it's been all along: focus on economic action and keep actions as multilateral as possible. What are their options?
    There are three options that need to be done.

    1.true financial sanctions on Gasprom

    2. true financial sanctions on Putin's own wealth estimated in the billions.

    3. as fast as possible anti tank missiles to the UA to counter the heavy tanks being used--and along the way thousands of protection vests we have sitting in the warehouses because many of the UA have nothing

    Finally share the intel for targeting purposes.

    And lastly share the actual intel with the world so that the use of Russian troops inside the Ukraine is no longer being stated by just the Ukrainians which the Russians always claim are lying.

  17. #257
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    applies
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    Starting WW3 isn't really an issue, since he knows the US is not going to fight Russia over the Ukraine. An announcement might suggest to him that it would be a good idea to speed up his timetable and act decisively before the proposed deliveries can take effect.

    The Ukrainians seem to be doing reasonably well on the military side on their own, and of course overt US support would be an open excuse for the Russians to escalate their support.

    We've heard a lot of talk about more Russian troops and equipment moving in, but is there any news suggesting a change in the momentum of the fighting?
    Or the prospect of Russki bodies he actually cares a little about might cause him to rethink the whole thing.

    This is one of those situations I think where what Grant said to the officers of the Army of the Potomac when he took over applies, he told them to stop thinking about what Bobby Lee was going to do to them and start thinking about what they were going to do to him.

    (Also what Outlaw said.)
    Last edited by carl; 08-23-2014 at 01:15 PM.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  18. #258
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    AP--here is an example of the country you claim one has to "understand and see things from their perspective and when one does then negotiate".

    Or at least that is a summary of what you were implying.

    Read this article concerning the Russian truck drivers and mercenaries dismantling Ukrainian military production equipment from Ukrainian companies around the Donbas region.

    Are we now back in 1945 when the Soviets dismantled everything the Germans had and shipped it back to the SU as reparations for the war--since when is the Ukraine to supply at no cost anything to the former Soviet Union since 1991?

    Last time I checked the Ukrainians did not lose the war.

    You really do need to go back and reread the secret agreements signed between Ribbentrop and Stalin on this exact day 23.8.1939 to really understand just why the Russians then the Soviet Union still feels today they can control the central European region and the Baltics---really read the secret agreement on how the Soviets and Germans divided up central Europe.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GN08V20140823

  19. #259
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    AP---you do realize that the looted factory equipment can from a Ukrainian factory that produces a world class SIGINT line of equipment that the Russian Army needed in order to reach their 2020 military reforms program.

    But hey I guess the Putin "wanted payments" for the delivered "humanitarian aid".

    And again I state what is the US response and what is the US strategy for central Europe and the Baltics outside of just being verbal?

    @RobPulseNews there were reports about disassembling "TOPAZ" that produced Kolchuga SIGINT complex @enigmaleggend @raging545

  20. #260
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    AP--another point to think about--go back and reread all the Russian statements made in the UNSC, statements made by the Russian FM and statements made by Putin himself--- when they voted down "humanitarian aid" for Syria---was meddling in Syrian internal affairs, trying to influence Syria, to used to create a reason to toss out Assad, to used use as a reason to use force against Assad--to even supporting terrorists with the aid.

    Now just how is it then possible that Russia states the following today via RIA:

    Russia Says Aid Delivery to East Ukraine Legal, Guided by Humanitarian Principles

    Russia said Saturday its humanitarian assistance mission to turbulent eastern Ukraine had complied with the International Court of Justice ruling that allowed for the delivery of humanitarian aid to people disregarding their political convictions.

    By the way it is the same IJC that ruled against Russia to the tune of 50B USD in the Yukos case ---and then the Russian Duma stated they should not obey and leave the IJC, to virtually the same remarks by the Russian FM and also from Putin.

    So Russian argues one way when they want to and another way when they want to so just how does one then "negotiate" with a country that virtually lies with every statement when it suits them?

    How does then the West "trust" a country when it speaks with three tongues?

Similar Threads

  1. Mainly terrorism in Indonesia: catch all
    By SDSchippert in forum Asia-Pacific
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 01-25-2019, 08:10 PM
  2. Vietnam collection (lessons plus)
    By SWJED in forum Training & Education
    Replies: 140
    Last Post: 06-27-2014, 04:40 AM
  3. Military Affairs Course Syllabus
    By Jesse9252 in forum RFIs & Members' Projects
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-22-2006, 08:54 PM
  4. Military Transformed -- Better Gear, New Goals
    By SWJED in forum Equipment & Capabilities
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-08-2006, 12:28 PM
  5. Conference on Professional Military Education
    By SWJED in forum Training & Education
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-08-2006, 10:58 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •