Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

[AmericanPride]

are you actually proposing that Russia has not been actually in economic tumult since 1994---I would argue they never have come out of it especially since their economy has never moved past a state owned/run capitalist/corporate concept which never did die out.

The conditions of an economy (i.e. "in tumult") and the structure of an economy (i.e. "state owned") are two different things. By nearly all indicators of a healthy economy (e.g. GDP), the Russian economy has significantly improved since 1994, your bias notwithstanding.

Again AP outside of two raw resources and nuclear weapons what does Russia really offer the West outside of a hard time these days?

I've already answered this question.

Now AP does that sound like a sane government to you or a government out of control internally?

It sounds like bureaucracy.

So again the question AP outside of oil and gas and that oil is slowly diminishing by 2020 what does Russia really offer the global market and the rest of the world?

So a country needs to offer something to the "global market" for you to consider it a rational actor with clearly defined interests that should be considered when making policy towards said country?

Again AP you make countless comments--what would you personally suggest to Putin is his exit ramp?

I've already answered that question.

Basically it sounds like you would simply give the entire Ukraine to him, and declare his arguments to be correct and heck why not give back the Baltics, the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Poland as well as that is what his view of Russian nationalism is all about.---the recreation of the Soviet Empire as defined by Russian nationalists.

Are you going to accuse me of being a Russian plant next? Anyway - you're confusing arguments here. Understanding Russia's arguments is not the same as accepting them. And if "simply [giving] the entire Ukraine to [Putin]" advanced U.S. security, it's not something I would dismiss from consideration (and to be clear in case you misinterpret my comments again, I don't think that 'solution' would advance U.S. or even Russian security).

I don't think "economic chaos" is the goal of sanctions, and it would take much more aggressive sanctions to even come close to that outcome. The goal appears to be more modest: to impose enough economic pain on the oligarchs that they will pressure Putin to revise his policies. Stretching that to "economic chaos" is somewhat over the top.

I agree - my comments were directed at Outlaw, who seems fixated on destroying Russia.

[JMA]

... - my comments were directed at Outlaw, who seems fixated on destroying Russia.

And what exactly is the problem with that?

Had the collapse of the Soviet Union been effectively managed this would not have happened. Bush #41 must take responsibility for that.

In the wake of the Crimea / Ukraine invasions certainly the plan must be to emasculate Russia to the extent that it can never again threaten neighbouring states.

How could that ever be achieved with the current Whitehouse and EU governments is the big question.

[AmericanPride]

And what exactly is the problem with that?

Oh let me count the ways... starting with the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Had the collapse of the Soviet Union been effectively managed this would not have happened. Bush #41 must take responsibility for that.

The Bush administration did not want the collapse of the Soviet Union, recognizing all of the problems that would be unleashed. Events on the ground - the hardliner coup, Yeltsin's nationalism, etc - overtook policy. And how exactly would the U.S. have "effectively managed" the implosion of the USSR anyway? What does "effectively manage" actually mean in practice?

In the wake of the Crimea / Ukraine invasions certainly the plan must be to emasculate Russia to the extent that it can never again threaten neighbouring states.

Because that worked so well with the German Empire? How do you propose to "emasculate" a nuclear-armed country?

You have these broad, sweeping policy ideas but no detail on how it would actually be implemented.

How could that ever be achieved with the current Whitehouse and EU governments is the big question.

Whatever their faults, I trust they're smarter than to become involved in the "emasculation" of Russia (whatever that means).