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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #321
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    OK active and retired SF/SOF---something of extreme interest.

    Your prior training of Ukrainian SF is paying off.

    Again what phase of the eight steps of the new Russian UW doctrine is this?


    BREAKING #Russian SOF have started using K-9 units against #Ukraine SOF in Ukraine. 6 #RUS SOF & 2 dogs are eliminated. #ATO

    Again new info on the killed Russian SOF team and dogs.

    CONFIRMED UPDATE - #Russian SOF K-9 units where today #Ukraine SOF eliminated 6 & 2 dogs were fr #Russian army unit 35690.

    UPDATE2 The #Russian army SOF unit 35690 was called "Sputnik" ("Спутник"). [Companion].
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 06:45 PM.

  2. #322
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
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    The influential conserative German FAZ features a well-written article with the memorable title 'Russian casualities in Ukraine: from their graves are vanishing the wreaths'

    When you think that the Kremlin's acid cynism and ridiculous lies can not be pushed any further you will find yourself wrong again and again:

    „Er ist nicht aus eigenem Willen in die Ukraine gegangen“

    Ein lokaler Abgeordneter berichtete nun, in Pskow spreche man offen darueber, dass den Familien der Getöteten von den Behoerden auch die Entschaedigung verwehrt werde, weil sie als „Freiwillige“ und damit unter Verletzung des Strafgesetzbuches in die Ukraine gezogen seien. Dieses quasijuristische Argument war bisher im Zusammenhang mit den Freiwilligen aus Russland, die in der Ukraine für die im russischen Staatsfernsehen seit langem als Streiter wider den Faschismus glorifizierten Separatisten zu kaempfen, noch nicht bemueht worden.
    To hide the use of regular units in it's war against Ukraine fallen Russian soldiers ordered to invade are painted as 'volunteers', denying their relatives compensations and the fallen decorations on their graves.

    Congratulations for those brave Russian souls fighting for the truth against the Kremlin's ruthless might.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  3. #323
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    If one rereads the new Russian military doctrine largely built on UW in the eight phases one will see often the term camouflage.

    MilitaryMaps is a Russian camouflage effort in the open source world that "portrays" separatists military movements---the new southern front was portrayed two days before it happened.

    There is now in the maps is an actual airborne effort by supposedly separatists which in fact have no air force or abne troops.

    It is a blatant attempt to influence the decision making by the UA in order to draw them away from the Donetsk area where the actual fight is ongoing.

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/...537281/photo/1

  4. #324
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    Not one to get into internal US politics but this really does have to be questioned--at the beginning of the Russian information warfare campaign there was a chart released by bloggers which I had posted to the first series of threads when the Crimea started.

    In that chart I was surprised to see the mentioning of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and made mention of that in the posting comment.

    Today from one of the main blogging sites ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl that has done massively good open source analysis----is a rather detailed take apart of Russian dis-information efforts being run by a senior member of the Ron Paul's Peace and Prosperity Institute.

    In order to fully understand the new Russian doctrine one must fully understand the dis-information efforts by the Russians as it is an inherent part of the current Russian political warfare against the Ukraine.

    Then on top of it one must actually go back and reread several comments made by Ron Paul himself that matches the Russian propaganda messaging to a "T".

    Reread his comments after reading through the ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl analysis of his Institute and then sit back and mull it over.

    The US term of someone being "democratic" is slowly being turned upside down--why because much of this analysis work never makes into the US mainstream media and Americans never get a chance to read it.

    Leaning from watching this dis-information campaign unfold---there are at least four sides to a discussion.

    By the way Russian TV in the States is doing a great job as well on the dis-information front.

    Wednesday, August 27, 2014

    RPI executive director Daniel McAdams acts as Russian Propagandist/Troll

    Daniel McAdams (@DanielLMcAdams) of the 'Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity' is profiling himself on Twitter and it turns out he has a profound proRussian attitude that looks exactly like those of Russian Trolls.

    On the website of the Ron Paul Institute, Daniel McAdams features as the executive Director
    :

    This clearly connects these accounts and it means @DanielLMcAdams is not a fake account impersonating the real McAdams, but it is indeed the executive director of the institute.

    Daniel McAdams can be found as an author on the Russia Today website:

    The first three articles in which he is featuring, already blow his cover: he operates as an extension of Russian Propaganda.
    These are some things he says:

    •"Ukrainian authorities are carrying out ethnic cleansing."
    •Ukrainian "election in such a climate ... result of 'wonderfully democratic' vote"
    •"Imposing sanctions on Russia is an act of war."
    •"Stalemate can only be resolved by returning to February 21 agreement between Yanukovich and the opposition."

    McAdams came to my attention because of his extremely rude remarks towards a Ukrainian citizen reporting live from Novoazovsk while it was being shelled, under attack and being taken over by Russian forces:
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 06:44 AM.

  5. #325
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    Informative video from Russian mercenaries side advancing in #Ilovaisk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd5WTp8MpUU … pic.twitter.com/VHHcSqymkn

  6. #326
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    Todays' events concerning what the US has declared via a press conference to be "an incursion" and is largely ignoring out of fear they must finally lead and others are calling an outright "invasion".

    Some say we the world should learn from history but what did the West "learn" from Georgia and Moldavia when dealing with Putin?


    Group of Russian army with tanks settled in Novooasovsk #RussiainvadedUkraine pic.twitter.com/WUwMxLyK9b

    @JamesRon1980 Unidentified SU-25 seen near Novazovsk yesterday around 19:00, comfirmed visual by me and my team @ISNJH @lennutrajektoor

    15,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine: Russian NGO claims massive deployment of Russian troops
    #RussiainvadedUkraine
    http://youtu.be/OSUeewx4qL8

    Ukrainian officials alarmed with reports that "little green men have landed" around Mariuopol in Eastern Ukraine - unmarked Russian forces.

    BREAKING General Secretary of the United Nation proposed to revoke #Russia veto right in #UNSC #RussiainvadedUkraine https://twitter.com/melanhaton/statu...55546969997312

    Russian army launches large-scale Ukraine invasion: US slams 'Russian-directed counteroffensive'
    http://youtu.be/V6nRjg6SLyE

    NOTE: If the US wants to get Russian attention ie Putin declare sanctions now against Putin himself and Gasprom---cut both off from international capital sources and see just how fast he responds.

    George Shultz: The events in Ukraine are not receiving the response they deserve.
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/willi...ive-1409094947


    BREAKING Geoffrey Pyatt officially confirms #Russian terrorists got fr #RUS army Pantsir-S1 latest AA complex. https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt/statu...75209024086016

    Pro-Russian rebel leader, Alexander Zakharchenko: 3-4,000 Russian citizens are fighting in their ranks #Ukraine


    Committee of Mothers of Russian Soldiers: #Russia hiding Russian soldiers KIA. At least 15,000 RU troops in #Ukraine http://tvrain.ru/articles/valentina_...dpishu-374646/
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 10:25 AM.

  7. #327
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    Would be nice to go back and see some of the comments made by JMA during the start of the Crimea and eastern Ukraine events in the light of these reports coming in today via bloggers concerning the UA fighting against now overwhelming Russian infantry and tanks.

    Would also be interesting to reread the comments made by some who disagreed with JMA and pushed for negotiations.

    By the way the UN Charter allows a country to defend itself if an outside force is not willing to pull back.

    If be interesting to go back to the beginning with the Crimea comments here and check how many commenters really did take the time to fully understand Russia's new military doctrine as it was being implemented by Putin in the face of all the verbal comments made by western leaders.

    Russian wants a land corridor to the Crimea and wants the rest of the Black Sea and Azoz Sea oil/gas reserves and the west does not see this?

    And if the western leaders currently think they can trust anything Putin says have been roundly disappointed. To negotiate means it is on a basis of trust so where is that with Putin?

    #BREAKINGREPORT THE RUSSIAN ARMY ALSO TOOK #NOVOAZOVSK. UKRAINIAN FORCES RETREAT TO MARIUPOL.
    http://m.censor.net.ua/news/299957/r...atalona_dnepr1

    #BREAKINGNEWS THE UKRAINIAN ARMY'S FRONTLINE ONCE AGAIN COLLAPSED IN THE LIGHT OF HEAVY RUSSIAN ARMY ATTACKS.

    #SAUR_MOHYLA FELL!

    The EU/US/NATO has had 15 years to study Putin's Russia and still they have not understood anything but instead become corrupted and divided.

    The Ukrainian army retreats, trying to avoid total annihilation.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 11:04 AM.

  8. #328
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    In the light of the two tweets below---just what is the US strategy?---still focus on the IS and Syria bombings?--- when the barn in central Europe is burning down, your role as NATO leader has been openly challenged and you ideas of "soft power" have be bluffed by Putin.

    If the current US senior political leadership in the WH cannot hold a major press conference and show the world the supporting US classified intel, point the finger directly at Putin as a lair first class and then pull the trigger on the toughest sanctions available---then pack it in and simply declare the US is ready to go into isolation from the world and they really do not care and the idea of rule of law and good governance was simply propaganda.

    Senior leadership is all about leading not hiding and silence---and the use of force and or to threaten the use of force on occasions has to be done in the name of global security.

    But see Putin has disdain for Obama and views Obama as being a weak leader and afraid of tough decisions---and his failing to follow up on his own red lines contributes to that image.

    There was an interesting blog late last night that projected the line of defense the Russians were setting up that ran from the Ukrainian coastline to Kaliningrad---notice that would in effect create the "buffer" Russia claims for itself.

    But it effectively isolates the entire Baltics from the rest of NATO and effectively sets them up for the UW doctrine Russia is using against the Ukraine.---ie the Putin Doctrine.

    My concern is Poland as they themselves no longer trust both NATO and the US to take their security concerns seriously---and the Polish Army is well trained and equipped and next door to the Ukraine

    Chatham House Press @CH_PressOffice

    #NATO intervention in #Ukraine is highly unlikely, but there is still headroom to significantly escalate economic sanctions - @RobinNiblett

    Russian troops are 'directly involved' in fighting in Ukraine, US ambassador to Kiev claims
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #329
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    The Putin Doctrine is real/dangerous and a threat to both the US and Europe as a whole and I used that term Doctrine just after Putin's Duma speech.

    Russian troops and heavy armor have now formally crossed into and are fighting in the Ukraine.

    Some here called it six months ago but also some did not like those comments--sometimes truth to power is correct but again only a few are bold enough to use it.

    So US senior leaders your own AWCS and E3s did not see this coming or was the bombing of the IS which is not a serious threat to US security --even the JCoS stats that---more or less serious than Europe?

    Poroshenko says "Russian forces have entered #Ukraine" http://president.gov.ua/news/31102.html

    Etwa 3 bis 5 Tsd. russ. Soldaten berquerten die ukr. Grenze #invasion
    https://www.facebook.com/euromaidanpr.de | EMPR #euromaidanpr_de

    At emergency OSCE perm council right now--many condemning Russia's latest escalation. This is a man-made tragedy, directed by Kremlin.

  10. #330
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    War in Central Europe in the 21st century ---it is here and now after everyone assumed peace had broken out in 1994---think again.

    An interesting question to commenters here--when does an "incursion" become an "invasion"----29 August 2014---and those who though Russia was not implementing their new Putin Doctrine and those that think Poland and the Baltics are not part of that plan think again.

    Tweet just came in---typical for Russian lying.
    Russia just complained about "insulting wording" from US Amb (me)-- Russian MFA prefers that Kremlin crimes discussed in polite language.

    So the use of the word "invasion" is offensive?

    Really go back and reread the Molotov/Ribbentrop secret agreements---Russia views itself as the follow on Soviet Union and Poland and the Baltics are theirs forever--as well as they have denied Ukrainian independence since 1920.

    Everything was here to be "seen" some here and in US senior leadership positions failed again to "understand" what they were seeing---this has been a failure of Us politics since 9/11.

    Had the seriously impacting sanctions on Gasprom and Putin himself been put into play thus would not be happening--cut Russia from all global capital markets and release the sour oil reserves and drive the price to 60 USD per barrel---then you will get Putin's attention---anything else is a complete waste of time--it is way past talking time.

    I personally hate the sentence---I told you so but this was serious the second Putin gave his Duma speech---ethno national imperialism is alive and well in Russia and some of us old guys thought it had died out years ago.

    #Ukraine calls for emergency UN Security Council meeting. @Yatsenyuk_AP https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...38601382960671

    Here comes the land corridor that was discussed here in SWJ back when the Crimea issue started---amazing how some get it---wonder where JMA is as his comments would be interesting at this point.

    Putin ultimate plan & possible actions to achieve. #Transnistria (& poss Belarus) will be included #Ukraine #Russia
    pic.twitter.com/h2cNXZi2Kv

    Ukrainian officials - Novoazovsk has fallen to Russia - opening up road to the port city of Mariupol and a possible land bridge to Crimea.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 11:52 AM.

  11. #331
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    Russian has never given up on the killing of the Ukrainian EU Association Agreement as these three demands Russia made just after Minsk depict.

    Russia proposes three key amendments to the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement, reports Vedomosti citing a Russian government official.

    First, it is offered to reexamine the parameters and periods of time given to lower taxes on EU goods in Ukraine. According to Vedomosti’s informant, they should be lowered gradually, Russia is concerned with the taxes on goods that constitute $4 billion out of $16 billion of the entire goods circulation volume.

    Second, technical regulation has to be change, as technical rules of the EU are “much stricter.” Russia thinks that this will result in Russian goods being unable to access the Ukrainian market. It should be noted that the EU has stated numerous times that this fear is mostly fueled by myth.

    Third, according to the Russian Federation, unification or mutual acknowledgment of phytosanitary norms are necessary: Russia has three forms of certification, the EU has one.

    “An interim period” might be needed to sold the second and third issues, thinks the federal official.

    Essentially, the execution of Russia’s proposals will mean not only a full reexamination of the Association Agreement in the free trade section, but also the reexamination of the EU’s rules on internal trade.

    According to EuroPravda, the European Union denies the possibility of the trilateral Ukraine-Russia-EU consultations touching on the reexamination of the Association Agreement or any of its component.

    Ukraine also rejected any amendments to the Agreement.

    Thus Russian troops crossed the border to support these three points.

  12. #332
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    More running blog comments coming out of the Ukraine.

    On BBC there was an unnamed UK top official who stated he was surprised that the Russians would send troops---hope this is not the general thinking of western leaders up to yesterday---then we all are in trouble.

    For SF active and retired---highlighted is a report on Russian SEAL teams in the Ukraine.

    The blog site @bellingcat has been a great open source analysis team from the UK and they are the ones carrying the Russian SEAL info.
    A really great open source analysis of a Russian SEAL team inside the Ukraine---the Russian military just does not get opsec even in their supposedly "elite units".

    If the Russian/Putin lies were not so blatant it might actually be funny if this was not so serious---hard ot deny "it ain't us" when your own "elite" units use social media which an in fact be tracked/recorded.

    Roland Oliphant @RolandOliphant
    Live blog on what is looking increasingly like open war between Ukraine and Russia. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...enko-live.html


    Russia’s Version of the Navy SEALs May Be Fighting in Ukraine by @magnitsky on @Bellingcat https://bellingcat.com/news/mena/201...ng-in-ukraine/

    NATO will sell weapons to #Ukraine- National Security Bureau of #Poland http://goo.gl/UfVadZ

    BREAKING NEWS: Ukraine's OSCE envoy says city of Novoazovsk and other cities nearby have been seized by regular Russian forces – Reuters

    Then the standard Russian refrain "it ain't me".
    RIA Novosti ✔ @ria_novosti
    Russian envoy tells #OSCE there is no Russian convoys in Ukraine
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 01:09 PM.

  13. #333
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    This has got to be the height of Russia cynicism--and western leaders are suppose to trust Putin and negotiate what with a basic lair?

    • Russian soldiers on leave fighting Ukrainian troops alongside rebels, pro-Russian separatist leader says

    Begs the question since when in the Russian Army can a soldier take his own tank or artillery piece with him while on "vacation". Quite modern thinking for a military---maybe the Israeli IDF needs to copy that concept? Sure does save time when an alert is called.

    • Separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko says 3-4,000 serving Russian soldiers fighting against Ukrainian troops

  14. #334
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    Outlaw, I'm becoming little bit disappointed with bellingcat. How on earth is центр специального назначения Russian Navy SEAL? This unit is more like FBI HRT.

    You posted also this bellingcat post. This was posted in Russian already in April and we managed to agree that this bearded cossack is not GRU Vostok guy already then. Bellingcat has missed that info also. In the end of August.

    https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-e...k-wolf-sotnia/

    If you'd like to post this info to bellingcat, you can make them look better

    http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...hechen&page=62

  15. #335
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
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    Parents’ anguish over captured soldiers lays bare Russia’s covert war in Ukraine


    My complaint is to President Putin and the minister of defence: If you send servicemen somewhere and they get caught, then admit it and take responsibility, however painful it is,” said the father of Sergei Smirnov, one of the captured Russian soldiers, who did not want to give his first name.

    “The Stalin times are over. It’s not 1945 when they rejected PoWs returning home. The state media have ignored our boys’ plight but they’ve got nothing to be ashamed of.” Interestingly, and despite their anxiety, most of the relatives said they believed the official government theory that the soldiers got lost while on an exercise.

    However, several said it was an “alarm signal” that the young men send text messages after their departure to Rostov saying their phones were being removed, something that had not happened when they were dispatched on exercises to other parts of Russia.
    Obviously the massive propaganda campaign by the Kremlin's media had a deep impact on most of the population and it takes a personal loss for some to wake up to some extent. The people want to believe Putins lies because they are sweeter then the harsh reality. With more Russian soldiers coming back dead every week this will spread, a bit like in those days of the war in Afghanistan. The official political response has been so far pretty much the same, including the efforts to hide the dead.

    I'm not surprised that the phones were taken away, in a larger mass there are always some which do something stupid like giving away that they attacked Ukrainian forces or invaded the country - as some already did.
    Last edited by Firn; 08-28-2014 at 04:34 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  16. #336
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    http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...828-story.html

    Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, said the missiles from Russia were fired about 11 a.m. About an hour and a half later, the vehicles entered Ukraine from Veselo-Voznesenka, just across the border from Novoazovsk in the Rostov region in Russia.
    lRelated In Ukraine, pro-Russia separatists press on with building a new state

    A top NATO official said at least 1,000 Russian troops have poured into Ukraine with sophisticated equipment and have been in direct “contact” with Ukrainian soldiers, resulting in casualties, the Associated Press reported. He called that a conservative estimate and said an additional 20,000 Russian troops were right over the border in Russia.

  17. #337
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    This from the US UN ambassador kind of sums it up--the question for the US senior leadership---will it lead or simply do nothing as they did in 2008 with Gorgia---three wmonths later back to business as normal.

    @AmbassadorPower: How can we tell countries bordering Russia their sovereignty is guaranteed if we don't make our message heard on Ukraine?

    Did I miss something---was it not the US/UK that signed the Budapest Memorandum?

    Late last night received a short note via a secure method from a close friend who is a Ukrainian SF company commander--and if you are old school US SF then you know what it means.

    "Going to ground" was all he passed to me---he leads a sniper/guerrilla sabotage company. There has been since Feb and not talked a lot about--- a brutal Ukrainian SF/SBU counter SF fight in the Ukraine against GRU and Russian SF teams inside the Ukraine.

    My response back---stay safe.

    His going to ground could have been avoided if the US leadership would have fully understood Putin's Duma speech which was translated into English so there is no excuse that no one read it.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2014 at 09:02 PM.

  18. #338
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    28 Aug. 2014
    NATO releases satellite imagery showing Russian combat troops inside Ukraine

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_112103.htm

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/photos_112112.htm

  19. #339
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    After today's events---can one see the connection of the Russian military/political moves when using the last three phases of Russia's new military doctrine?

    It has been there all the time why is it so hard to "understand"?

    Again still not hearing the comments that this has to be "negotiated".

    Sixth Phase: commencement of military action, immediately preceded by large-scale reconnaissance and subversive missions. All types, forms, methods, and forces, including special operations forces, space, radio, radio engineering, electronic, diplomatic, and secret service intelligence, and industrial espionage.
    Seventh Phase: combination of targeted information operation, electronic warfare operation, aerospace operation, continuous airforce harassment, combined with the use of highprecision weapons launched from various platforms (long-range artillery, and weapons based on new physical principles, including microwaves, radiation, non-lethal biological weapons).
    Eighth Phase: roll over the remaining points of resistance and destroy surviving enemy units by special operations conducted by reconnaissance units to spot which enemy units have survived and transmit their coordinates to the attacker's missile and artillery units; fire barrages to annihilate the defender's resisting army units by effective advanced weapons; airdrop
    operations to surround points of resistance; and territory mopping-up operations by ground troops.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    28 Aug. 2014
    NATO releases satellite imagery showing Russian combat troops inside Ukraine

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_112103.htm

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/photos_112112.htm
    kaur---all the Russian UNSC Ambassador could repeatedly talk about was the MH17 air traffic tapes that the Ukrainians failed to reveal.

    Does he not fully understand that all conversations are fully recorded on the black boxes?

    All he tried to do was side step direct comments placed o him about the Ukraine invasion.

    Notice how the UNSC as a whole did everything possible to not utter two words---invasion and war?

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