Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

[Dayuhan]

Dayuhan--you asked for what red lines have been crossed

I asked which specific red line you wish to link to your proposed economic threat.

False flag operations are a key corner stone of Russian politics since the 30s.

I know. I don't doubt for a moment that the Russians would use a false flag operation if they thought the circumstances called for it and if they thought they could get away with it. I just doubt that this case was one of them. There's just too much evidence - much of it posted by you - suggesting that the separatists believed they were shooting at a Ukrainian military plane. Why would a separatist leader gloat over the shooting with all that "we warned you not to fly in our skies" stuff if the target was an Aeroflot plane and the intention was to blame it on the Ukrainians?

[OUTLAW 09]

I asked which specific red line you wish to link to your proposed economic threat.



I know. I don't doubt for a moment that the Russians would use a false flag operation if they thought the circumstances called for it and if they thought they could get away with it. I just doubt that this case was one of them. There's just too much evidence - much of it posted by you - suggesting that the separatists believed they were shooting at a Ukrainian military plane. Why would a separatist leader gloat over the shooting with all that "we warned you not to fly in our skies" stuff if the target was an Aeroflot plane and the intention was to blame it on the Ukrainians?

See Dayuhan another reason that often when tearing comments apart one tends to overlook links that one is pointed towards.

Ukraine@war.blogspot.nl

One of the best open source analysis blogs I have seen on the Buk and the launch site. He and his work was used by the US government for their intl briefings as it was virtually the same style of work as done by an intel analyst.

He did the workup on the SBU new theory of the false flag and came to the opinion it made sense with the notice that there needed to be released by the SBU the alleged voice intercepts which they did by the way just after the shot down of the missile crew and potential photos which could be geo tagged.

He then invited "trolls" to challenge him and one did and failed badly.

That was the link I provided you and if you had worked your way through it this question would have been answered.

Having worked the intel world a long while in my career---when someone uses the term "makes sense" than pay attention---I had an old German WW2 intel officer mentor from the German Army Gehlen Intel Group when I started back in 70 who told me the human is capable of anything and if it makes sense to you believe him.

[Dayuhan]

That was the link I provided you and if you had worked your way through it this question would have been answered.

I did look at the link. The trolls are very crude, but the blogger doesn't do much better. Someone asked:

the rebel leader wouldn't have known it was BUK and wouldn't have bragged to half DNR on the phone about it.

The blogger responds:

That was PART of the plan... them bragging about it. It would whitewash Russia.

That makes no sense at all... how would a Russian proxy bragging about shooting down a Russian plane "whitewash Russia"? It would do the opposite: Russia would look at least indirectly responsible. If the purpose was to blame the Ukrainian forces for shooting down a Russian plane, the bragging and gloating are completely incompatible with the plan... and why would Russia want to make the separatists look responsible?

The immediate post-shootdown gloating from the separatists is very well established, and it doesn't fit with the false flag conspiracy theories at all.