Results 1 to 20 of 4773

Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Middle Atlantic States
    Posts
    8

    Default Putin upping the ante even more

    I have to pour cold water on the latest Ukrainian military reports again. But since the Ukrainian government feeds overly optimistic reports, better to get the bad news sooner than later. The Ukrainian offensives on multiple fronts, that appeared to be gaining success only a week ago, have for all intents and purposes, ground to a halt. There are two reasons: first, the open border (following the epic breakout by the three Ukrainian brigades dug in there for over a month) has allowed the Russians to infiltrate up to 5,000 infantry, 250 tanks and 50 rocket missile systems into the fight. (Even the separatists admit that they now have up to 20,000 infantry in total, compared to 48,000 Ukrainians, by their count) These have been parceled out to reinforce a multitude of threatened sectors, to include Makeevka, Snizhne, Krasnyi Luch, Antratsyt, Illovaysk and Faschivka. Therefore, the advancing Ukrainians have encountered stiffened resistance and increased artillery fire, followed by counterattacks supported by tanks. (While reports of disheartened separatists deserting are true, these are being replaced more and more by fresh "little green men" from Russia) Two, the multiple Ukrainian maneuvers were carried out by small formations to interdict lines of communications, usually by combat groups of no more than two battalions in size with some armor and mobile artillery attached. While many of these thrusts were able to achieve rather deep incursions and achieved initial surprise, the battle groups were too small to sustain themselves if surrounded. Not surprisingly, the Russians used some of their reinforcements to surround these Ukrainian forces. Thankfully, most of these were able to break out of encirclement, but with significant loss of life and destroyed or abandoned heavy equipment. For example, just yesterday, only some 700 members of the 30th mechanized brigade broke out of encirclement near Stepanivka (east of Saur-Mohyla) Close to 200 were killed or captured (primarily by artillery from across the Russian border). Three days ago, the separatists circulated video of some thirty bombed out or abandoned armored vehicles in Stepanivka.

    Moreover, reports of Luhansk being close to capture are way off the mark. While it is true that Ukrainian troops are fighting in the northeast and southeast sectors of the city (a few Ukrainian spetsnaz even broke through to the city center), these are only four battalions. There are many more separatists inside of the city. Furthermore, the Ukrainians themselves are close to being surrounded. "Little green men" just infiltrated through a narrow gap in the line and are now inside of the city (By some reports as many 1200 Russian paratroopers and 100 tanks slipped in last night) The 80th (lvivska) airmobile brigade, reinforced by some tanks from the 1st guards tank brigade and the famous "Aidar" battalion, together with the 3d spetsnaz have been attacking into the city as well as holding Russian tanks at bay coming up the road from the border at Krasnodon for over a week. Sad to say, their heroic fighting may have to end in surrender. Their only base of supply is the Luhansk airport, which itself is surrounded and the nearest friendly lines are over 20 kilometers away. Also, the airport's defenses were thinned out when these troops attacked from inside the airport in an easterly direction to interdict the road to Luhansk from use by Putin's "white humanitarian" column. In summary, there are now too many Russians, too few battle worthy Ukrainians, with which to seize Luhansk and/or Donetsk. Ukrainian president Poroshenko will have to bite the bullet and withdraw into a firm line of defense further north, or else up to one-third of the Ukrainian army in the Donbas will be destroyed or captured by the ever-increasing number of Russian troops. The Ukrainians are over-extended, battle-weary and under-supplied, while the Russians are concentrated in a central position, coiled to strike in whichever direction they choose and sporting state-of-the-art equipment (No T-90 tanks yet, but rest assured, they will mark their debut soon). The war has reached the stage where the Ukrainian army is starting to fight proper and cohesive units of the Russian army, mostly spetsnaz, supported by armor and artillery, instead of militia that was led by spetsnaz.

  2. #2
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    I took the time to go back and reread the Latvian study done on the Crimea event viewed against that new UW doctrine and if one takes the time you will see that Russia is now at the sixth phase of that doctrine and moving to phase seven on a eight phase scale.

    If this new doctrine succeeds as it looks like it will the entire Baltic, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovenia are at risk, NATO and the EU will be split and the US isolated inside Europe---all long time goals from Putin since his take over.

    It is critical that commenters on this thread thoroughly understand the new Russian UW doctrine as it is being carried daily and in full public view complete now with videos.

    While this article below focuses on the Crimea as analyzed by the National Defence Academy of Latvia
    Center for Security and Strategic Research it applies directly to the current events in eastern Ukraine that
    we comment daily on. It also explains why the West seems incapable of responding.

    We tend to forget that the new Russian military doctrine currently being used in eastern Ukraine in support to the
    Russian political warfare being directed towards the Ukraine is in fact based totally on Unconventional Warfare.

    A major goal of the current Russian politics is the splitting of the EU from the US influence and the splitting/weakening of NATO as a valid force on it’s borders---a sort of permanent war as mentioned below.

    Taken from:
    RUSSIA’S NEW GENERATION WARFARE IN UKRAINE:
    IMPLICATIONS FOR LATVIAN DEFENSE POLICY

    Taken from page three:
    Russia’s Campaign in Ukraine as New-Generation Warfare

    Russia's military strategy can be divided into three interrelated levels. First, doctrinal
    unilateralism, or the idea that the successful use of force results in legitimacy. The weak reaction
    of the United States and the European Union has indicated that the strategy is correct.
    Second, by strongly adhering to legalism. Without discussing the legal merit of Russian actions,
    they were all backed by some form of legal act. Putin asked the Russian parliament for
    authorization to use military power in the Ukraine if necessary. Naturally, it was granted.
    Russia uses this fact together with the argument that it never used military power in Crimea
    as a sign of its peaceful intentions. Third, Russia denies the idea of it having militarily occupied
    Crimea, since the troops there were local self-defense forces.


    Taken from page five:

    The result was a clear military victory on the battlefield (meaning the Crimea) by the operationalization of a well-orchestrated campaign of strategic communication, using clear political, psychological, and information strategies (Ripley & Jones, 2014), the fully operationalization of what Russian military thinkers call “New Generation Warfare”. As a result, it follows that the main guidelines for developing Russian military capabilities by 2020 are:

    Adapted from Peter Mattsson’s DSPC lecture in Riga “The Russian Armed Forces Adapted to New Operational
    Concepts in a Multipolar World?”, February 19, 2014.

    x. From war in a defined period of time to a state of permanent war as the natural condition in
    national life.


    Thus, the Russian view of modern warfare is based on the idea that the main battlespace is the mind and, as a result, new-generation wars are to be dominated by information and psychological warfare, in order to achieve superiority in troops and weapons control, morally and psychologically depressing the enemy’s armed forces personnel and civil population.


    The main objective is to reduce the necessity for deploying hard military power to the minimum necessary, making the opponent’s military and civil population support the attacker to the detriment of their own government and country. It is interesting to note the notion of permanent war, since it denotes a permanent enemy. In the current geopolitical structure, the clear enemy is Western civilization, its values, culture, political system, and ideology.

    In other words, the Russians have placed the idea of influence at the very center of their operational planning and used all possible levers to achieve this: skillful internal communications; deception operations; psychological operations and well-constructed external communications. Crucially, they have demonstrated an innate understanding of the three key target audiences and their probably behavior: the Russian speaking majority in Crimea; the Ukrainian government; the international community, specifically NATO and the EU. Armed with this information they knew what to do, when and what the outcomes were likely to be,
    demonstrating that the ancient Soviet art of reflexive control is alive and well in the Kremlin.

    Reflexive control can be defined as “(...) a means of conveying to a partner or an opponent specially
    prepared information to incline him to voluntarily make the predetermined decision desired by the initiator of
    the action” (Thomas, 2004). For a comprehensive analysis of the Russian and Chinese achievements in
    this area, see Tatham, 2013.

    This is very relevant to understanding its strategic significance, since it is the operationalization
    of a new form of warfare that cannot be characterized as a military campaign in
    the classic sense of the term. The invisible military occupation cannot be considered an occupation
    by definition. Not only were the troops already on Crimean territory stationed at Russian
    naval bases, but they were also “officially” part of the autochthone civilian militia. The
    deception operations occurred inside Russian territory as military exercises, including ones in
    Kaliningrad to increase the insecurity of the Baltic States and Poland. At the same time, the
    Crimean parliament officially - although not legally by the Ukrainian constitution - asked to
    join the Russian Federation, and the Ukrainian media became inaccessible. As a result, Russian
    channels of communication propagating the Kremlin’s version of facts were able to establish
    a parallel material reality, legitimizing the Russian actions in the realm of ideas.

    Russia has been aggressively pursuing a mix of the strategies characteristic to the first
    phase of new-generation warfare, including the one of non-military asymmetric warfare in
    Latvia.


    NOTE: This is a major reason for the new NATO definition of Article Five issued by the
    US Commander Breedlove, and why Merkel is headed to Latvia this weekend.

    Some examples include the broadcasting of Russian propaganda channels, issuing
    Russian citizenship to Latvia’s non-citizens, pseudo human-rights movements, pro-Russian
    political parties, just to cite the most blatant. Since Russia’s strategy is opportunistic, reflecting
    the notion discussed before, that any campaign is to be pursued only in the case of certain
    victory, it will not initiate the second, third, and fourth phase unless favorable conditions are
    clear. The establishment of such favorable conditions is very much the responsibility of Latvia
    itself. Many will correctly claim that this is obvious. But, is it? If so, why is so difficult for us
    to take measures to counteract Russia’s measures towards establishing the favorable conditions
    that can lead to the next phase? As the popular saying goes, “it’s no use crying over spilt
    milk.”

    The phases of new-generation war can be schematized as (Tchekinov & Bogdanov,
    2013, pp. 15-22):
    First Phase: non-military asymmetric warfare (encompassing information, moral, psychological,
    ideological, diplomatic, and economic measures as part of a plan to establish a favorable
    political, economic, and military setup).
    NOTE: this is why the Russian global information war has been massive and all encompassing
    to include SWJ.
    Second Phase: special operations to mislead political and military leaders by coordinated
    measures carried out by diplomatic channels, media, and top government and military agencies
    by leaking false data, orders, directives, and instructions.
    Third Phase: intimidation, deceiving, and bribing government and military officers, with the
    objective of making them abandon their service duties.
    Fourth Phase: destabilizing propaganda to increase discontent among the population,
    boosted by the arrival of Russian bands of militants, escalating subversion.
    Fifth Phase: establishment of no-fly zones over the country to be attacked, imposition of
    blockades, and extensive use of private military companies in close cooperation with armed
    opposition units.
    NOTE: The extensive/massive buildup of Russian SAM11s, 13s, and 17s on the Ukrainian border
    are all about a no fly zone.
    Sixth Phase: commencement of military action, immediately preceded by large-scale reconnaissance
    and subversive missions. All types, forms, methods, and forces, including special
    operations forces, space, radio, radio engineering, electronic, diplomatic, and secret service
    intelligence, and industrial espionage.

    NOTE: IMO we are already seeing Russian implementation of this phase over the last week in
    eastern Ukraine using the “humanitarian aid convoy” as a true Trojan Horse camouflaging action.

    Meaning see we the Russians as so concerned about the welfare of the ethnic Russians we are
    providing 2000 tons of supplies---but not over the previously agreed to crossing point and not certainly not in
    initial agreement with the ICRC and the Ukraine which is what I did state to the world before I sent the trucks on their way.

    Now as the world looks daily at the convoy- Russian heavy weapons and troops are driven
    over the border in a steady stream with the resulting videos being posted and no one
    in the West seems to care.

    It often appears that the IS is far more important to the US than the loss of NATO and the EU would be to US long term strategies.

    That is if a strategy even exists?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-20-2014 at 06:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl is carrying a series on photos and interviews concerning the civilians hit by alleged irregular MRLs.

    There are well a number of bloggers indicating a Russian troop column of 1200 and 150 armored vehicles had made it into the Luhansk city.

    Must be the "aid" that the Donetsk said was coming? But the difference is -not irregular troops but trained Russian airborne troops and major MBTs.

  4. #4
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    If this new doctrine succeeds as it looks like it will the entire Baltic, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovenia are at risk, NATO and the EU will be split and the US isolated inside Europe---all long time goals from Putin since his take over.
    How would you define "success" for this doctrine in the current context? What do you think the Russians are accomplishing or are likely to accomplish in the Ukraine, and how would that produce the results you predict?

    Is there any evidence to suggest that the recently reported entry of troops and weapons has affected the momentum of the fighting? Current reports suggest that the Ukrainians are still
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  5. #5
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shchors View Post
    has allowed the Russians to infiltrate up to 5,000 infantry, 250 tanks and 50 rocket missile systems into the fight. (Even the separatists admit that they now have up to 20,000 infantry in total, compared to 48,000 Ukrainians, by their count)
    (While reports of disheartened separatists deserting are true, these are being replaced more and more by fresh "little green men" from Russia) Two, the multiple Ukrainian maneuvers were carried out by small formations to interdict lines of communications, usually by combat groups of no more than two battalions in size with some armor and mobile artillery attached.
    Moreover, reports of Luhansk being close to capture are way off the mark. While it is true that Ukrainian troops are fighting in the northeast and southeast sectors of the city (a few Ukrainian spetsnaz even broke through to the city center), these are only four battalions. There are many more separatists inside of the city. Furthermore, the Ukrainians themselves are close to being surrounded. "Little green men" just infiltrated through a narrow gap in the line and are now inside of the city (By some reports as many 1200 Russian paratroopers and 100 tanks slipped in last night)
    No links, not even a single picture, no evidences - just another erotic dream from Ukromedia, as usual.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  6. #6
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    An interview with a commander of "Aidar" batallian, petty criminal Ruslan Abal'mas turned into vigilante, about Snezhnoe (town just in between Lugansk and Donetzk)

    http://obozrevatel.com/interview/852...-eto-vragi.htm

    Мы считаем, лучше потерять Снежное как город, чем потерять своих солдат. Нужно авиацией, артиллерией проработать город так, чтобы его снести, чтоб земля выгорела метров на 5.

    Мы дали людям один раз коридор, второй раз – они не хотят оттуда уходить. Нам их жалко, но если люди не хотят оттуда уходить, значит, они остаются на стороне террористов. Как можно сохранить город, если он полностью заражен чумой!?
    We think it's better to scorch entire town to the ground than loose a soldier.
    We gave escape rout to people once or twice - the didn't leave.. if they don't want to escape - it means they are on the separatists side. How can a town be spared if if completely infected with plague?

    This town is full of heresy! Prepare for exterminatus!

    Last edited by mirhond; 08-20-2014 at 02:40 PM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  7. #7
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Putin personally comments mirhond's last post.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wHgnJy7ECb8

    This is nice video to confirm Putin's words by Crimean Tatar's TV reporter, how BTR's with Russian flags were behing cossacks and women in Crimea. This is how Ukrainian unit was harassed by civilians and backed by Russian troops. Worth to watch.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLaM0xB64s
    Last edited by kaur; 08-20-2014 at 04:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    Putin personally comments mirhond's last post.
    Wow! Putin watches my activity here and for some misterious reasons makes irrelevant comments? For what I deserved such an honor?
    Anyway, I fail to see your point - how on Earth his threats connected to Ukrainian punisher dreaming of exterminatus?


    This is nice video to confirm Putin's words by Crimean Tatar's TV reporter, how BTR's with Russian flags were behing cossacks and women in Crimea. This is how Ukrainian unit was harassed by civilians and backed by Russian troops. Worth to watch.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLaM0xB64s
    LOLWUT? What makes you think that cameraman is "Tatar TV reporter"? He actually calls himself member of self-defence. 5:53
    Last edited by mirhond; 08-20-2014 at 09:15 PM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  9. #9
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    Wow! Putin watches my activity here and for some misterious reasons makes irrelevant comments? For what I deserved such an honor?
    Anyway, I fail to see your point - how on Earth his threats connected to Ukrainian punisher dreaming of exterminatus?




    LOLWUT? What makes you think that cameraman is "Tatar TV reporter"? He actually calls himself member of self-defence. 5:53
    comrade mirhond---you really think anyone pays any more attention to your comments/cartoons (besides they take up computer power)---for every one provide us three more opposite comments can be found alone coming out of Russia itself

  10. #10
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    let's see you comment on this mirhond---four days ago a convoy of T90s were photo geo tagged driving out of Rostiv headed towards the Ukrainian border.

    then yesterday they were photoed again near Rostov coming back from the Ukrainian border---this time empty---by the way the same license plates.

    then this shows up today from bloggers:


    Survivor of the 30th brigade @ #Stepanovka tells they were attacked w 21 #Russian army T-90 tanks on August 12. http://www.berdichev.biz/content/view/12100/1/

    this is the third report---will be more than happy to provide you the links
    of T90s inside the Ukraine and do not argue the Ukrainians had them "stolen or sold them"

    the last time I checked the Ukrainians have no T90s.

  11. #11
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    No links, not even a single picture, no evidences - just another erotic dream from Ukromedia, as usual.
    let us see now a link that you claim does not exist comrade mirhond: you guys just cannot figure out how to use the social media to it best abilities--regardless of how much you spend bloggers win in the end my friend---and you all have lost the open source war before it even started

    comrade mirhond----maybe this ia Russian soldier who "just got lost" and though he was going to Siberia and ended up in eastern Ukraine?

    #Russian private N.Surnachev of Pskov 76thDiv, his name on captured IFV’s machine-gun #Lugansk http://vk.com/id71665467 pic.twitter.com/5s5M8RkiOH

    so comrade mirhond---and again;

    APC BMD-2 of RF army, Pskov airborne brigade captured near Lutuhyne pic.twitter.com/LdBL3in9OM via @Dbnmjr http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/20-of-au...igade-captured
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-21-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  12. #12
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    comrade mirhond you have got to get those eastern Europeans under control--or maybe Putin will use this as a new reason for a Russian invasion of all of eastern Europe.

    He must now not only "defend" those poorly mistreated and discriminated pro Russians he must "defend" all those Soviet war memorials out there.

    you did know that their protection was part of the 4 plus 2 treaties with Germany right?

    let us see---first Poland, then Slovenia, then Hungary, and now Bulgaria---where will this end mirhond?

    Russia demands Bulgarians stop painting Soviet monuments as Super heroes pic.twitter.com/OtuoD4ovUM via @Gary__Bass http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/20-of-au...viet-monuments

  13. #13
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    so comrade mirhond--about those Russians that are not suppose to be in the Ukraine?

    got an answer for this?

    Ukrainian journalist Bochkala: Ukrainian forces captured active duty Russian paratroopers whose unit entered #Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/s...898113/photo/1
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-21-2014 at 11:58 AM.

  14. #14
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    so comrade mirhond--about those Russians that are not suppose to be in the Ukraine?

    got an answer for this?

    Ukrainian journalist Bochkala: Ukrainian forces captured active duty Russian paratroopers whose unit entered #Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/s...898113/photo/1
    mirhond---further information on Russian airborne soldiers captured with their two APCs.

    and there are no Russian soldiers fighting in the Ukraine?

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...os-361543.html

  15. #15
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...ed-in-ukraine/

    Battalion Dnepr-1 breaks #Ilovaisk siege w/ BMP, #pickup_truck and some Ural, passing destr. tanks.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG4WY-nTNFU&index=1
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-21-2014 at 07:25 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Mainly terrorism in Indonesia: catch all
    By SDSchippert in forum Asia-Pacific
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 01-25-2019, 08:10 PM
  2. Vietnam collection (lessons plus)
    By SWJED in forum Training & Education
    Replies: 140
    Last Post: 06-27-2014, 04:40 AM
  3. Military Affairs Course Syllabus
    By Jesse9252 in forum RFIs & Members' Projects
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-22-2006, 08:54 PM
  4. Military Transformed -- Better Gear, New Goals
    By SWJED in forum Equipment & Capabilities
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-08-2006, 12:28 PM
  5. Conference on Professional Military Education
    By SWJED in forum Training & Education
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-08-2006, 10:58 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •