Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

[BrentWilliams]

BW---if in fact the strategy is as clear as muddy water then explain to me and the rest of the commenters---is in fact the sinking of naval vessels of one country by the air force of another country in territorial waters of the first country---is what an "incursion", a "vacation", an "invasion" or simply all out warfare---- what we in the West would if not using a really thick dictionary---simply "war".

If after watching this YouTube video of the attack and sinking by the Russian Air Force of two Ukrainian naval vessels---tell me and the other commenters---sanctions are working ....right?

And that is the great "strategy"?

#BREAKINGNEWS RUSSIAN AIR FORCE JETS ATTACK UKRAINIAN COAST GUARD SHIP NEAR #MARIUPOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9YlU06zu7s … pic.twitter.com/jkO4oNhrur

#Russia'n airstrikes destroyed
two #Ukraine coast guard vessels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyLFg61UIA

BW---you cannot really believe that the current sanctions are working and they will cause Putin to what--- negotiate?

Calling it not an invasion doesn't mean we don't have a strategy. It means that we are trying to allow Russia the ability to walk this back. Disagreement with a strategy is not the same thing as not having one.

[OUTLAW 09]

Calling it not an invasion doesn't mean we don't have a strategy. It means that we are trying to allow Russia the ability to walk this back. Disagreement with a strategy is not the same thing as not having one.

BW--like your thoughts but you tend to overlook the oblivious.

I have counted using both the EU and US offers roughly six different "off ramps" and "three trial balloons solutions" in order to "help" Putin "save face" or "find an exit".

Have you seen him take those offers--if in fact he was even interested--I for one have not.

One of the remaining serious Russian political scientists with a following in the West stated today in Moscow---Putin has made a clear decision and that is to create the "New Russia"---end of story

In fact the more the West offers in "face saving" the more he doubles down -ie four major aggressive political statements in less than four days all of which are aggressive in tone/word and focused against the Ukraine, the West, and Kazakhstan.

Does that sound like he really wants "an off ramp"?

Again go back and reread his New Generation Warfare and do the same for the topic "political warfare" and you will see where he is coming from---he is definitely not looking for "an off ramp".

If anything it is the US.EU/NATO trying desperately to "find the off ramp" before they have to truly get serious about his aggression in central Europe.

Come on BW---ego or serious threat when Putin tells the EU President he can be in Kiev in two weeks?

I would modify the Russian stance "of it ain't me" sending troops money and mercenaries into the Ukraine to "it ain't about my ego or me not understanding my own strategy".

This is the difference between Putin and say the entire West right now---he has a strategy with an end state and he is executing it to a T---the West has absolutely nothing and that includes this current President and sanctions in itself does not a strategy make.

[BrentWilliams]

BW--like your thoughts but you tend to overlook the oblivious.

I have counted using both the EU and US offers roughly six different "off ramps" and "three trial balloons solutions" in order to "help" Putin "save face" or "find an exit".

Have you seen him take those offers--if in fact he was even interested--I for one have not.

One of the remaining serious Russian political scientists with a following in the West stated today in Moscow---Putin has made a clear decision and that is to create the "New Russia"---end of story

In fact the more the West offers in "face saving" the more he doubles down -ie four major aggressive political statements in less than four days all of which are aggressive in tone/word and focused against the Ukraine, the West, and Kazakhstan.

Does that sound like he really wants "an off ramp"?

Again go back and reread his New Generation Warfare and do the same for the topic "political warfare" and you will see where he is coming from---he is definitely not looking for "an off ramp".

If anything it is the US.EU/NATO trying desperately to "find the off ramp" before they have to truly get serious about his aggression in central Europe.

Come on BW---ego or serious threat when Putin tells the EU President he can be in Kiev in two weeks?

I would modify the Russian stance "of it ain't me" sending troops money and mercenaries into the Ukraine to "it ain't about my ego or me not understanding my own strategy".

This is the difference between Putin and say the entire West right now---he has a strategy with an end state and he is executing it to a T---the West has absolutely nothing and that includes this current President and sanctions in itself does not a strategy make.

I don't think he wants an off ramp, but if your key constraint is Europe, it doesn't hurt any to say that. It allows Europe to build a consensus. And rather he gains "new Russia" or not, an economically isolated Russia is not a threat to Europe or the United States. It is more of a threat to Putin. Maintaining and training a modern military requires a modern economy.