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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #2241
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    "Head" of "DNR" was shot in leg in Debaltseve. Now in hospital http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/17-febr...debaltseve-now … #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/QwPvQzF2eR
    BREAKING:Lifenews reports abt so-called 'DPR head' lightly wounded in #Debaltseve. Was he observing ceasefire there? pic.twitter.com/ew0C4F2K0a

    Seems the Russian mercenaries are in clear violation of the ceasefire otherwise he would not have been wounded?

    Why is Russia pushing so hard to take Debaltseve? The core question is why is the Ukrainian Army not fully engaging to defend the city with their equally massive artillery and rockets? OR do they want a true Urban warfare scenario to drive Russian loses into the sky much as they did at the Donetsk airport?
    Why Russia wants strategic #Debaltseve. Note #StanytsaLuhaska - if captured, will finalize Russian's control of East. pic.twitter.com/VJLgUZqt8U


    Donbas commander urging Poroshenko to make decision on counter-offensive in Debaltseve over deteriorating situation https://www.facebook.com/dostali.hva...03690739665701

    40th battalion is literally begging for reinforcements. I hate to say it, but that's exactly what happened in #Ilovaisk, GS is lying.

    "The roads have been mined. All the rest of my troops are sitting, watching, waiting for the battalion to be killed." http://www.unian.info/war/1045193-40...orcements.html

    #Ukraine Defense ministry says "street fighting" going on in Debaltseve, rebels attacking the town backed by artillery and armor – REUTERS

    Operational Summary of the War in Donbas as of February 16, 2015. Focus on the Sector ‘C’ -... http://fb.me/1AtNIdIv3
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-17-2015 at 03:49 PM.

  2. #2242
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    Putin wants via the Ukraine to achieve three geo political goals and this administration is massively assisting him in achieving those three goals.

    These three goals have been stated a number of different ways and at different times by Putin since 2002---so it should not have been a surprise to this administration --cannot believe they assumed the "reset" would take precedence over the three goals.

    So out of touch with Russian affairs and just how big is the Department of State, the CIA, DIA and NSA?

    1. disconnect the US from Europe
    2. discredit NATO
    3. discredit the EU

    Must-read John Vinocur @WSJ: "Putin Begins to Crack the Atlantic Alliance: http://www.wsj.com/articles/john-vin...nce-1424133043
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-17-2015 at 09:08 PM.

  3. #2243
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    Notice the not so subtle double standards of Putin---I can flood the Ukraine with troops and weapons and pay for mercenaries BUT you NATO/EU ie Bosnia and Lithuania cannot sell and or provide weapons to the Ukraine.

    Did anyone also notice the EU/NATO response---Bosnia backed down after being threatened---will be interesting to see if Lithuania does as well.

    Again not a single word out of the US.

    Lithuania Selling Arms to Kiev is of 'Grave Concern' to Russia http://sputniknews.com/europe/201502...#ixzz3S1Dm8Y4B #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/TcFNhKo6IV

  4. #2244
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    As I indicated there is actually no US strategy whatsoever for either the Ukraine and or Russian adventurism.

    So I guess the Biden and WH words of "we will judge Putin on his actions and not his words" were just for public consumption in order to show they were "concerned".

    Russia has now effectively achieved all of it's geo political goals.

    1. disconnecting the US from Europe--unwilling to even defend their own signed agreements with other countries--now some nations will start asking just how intent is the US on defending what it states and signs?
    2. discrediting the EU---the French German diplomacy failures at Minsk --sanctions will not be strengthened nor lengthened by the EU
    3. discrediting NATO---through the US, French and German actions on the Ukraine problem who now actually believes Article 5 would ever be implemented in a "hybrid war event" where similar Ukrainian events did occur say on the Baltics or Romania or Bulgaria or Slovian?

    Now it appears the Russian annexation of the Crimea and now eastern Ukraine have the undivided support of the US/EU/NATO and that 25 years after the Wall came down and everyone shouting Russia was violating international agreements and laws--all talk nothing more.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Tuesday it was not in the interests of Ukraine or the world to get into a proxy war with Russia over eastern Ukraine, a comment suggesting Washington is hesitant to arm Ukrainian forces.

    "Our belief here in the administration, and I would be surprised if others disagree, is that getting into a proxy war with Russia is not anything that's in the interest of Ukraine or in the interest of the international community," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters. "And certainly, as we weigh options, we weigh that as one of the factors."

  5. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    As I indicated there is actually no US strategy whatsoever for either the Ukraine and or Russian adventurism.

    So I guess the Biden and WH words of "we will judge Putin on his actions and not his words" were just for public consumption in order to show they were "concerned".

    Russia has now effectively achieved all of it's geo political goals.

    1. disconnecting the US from Europe--unwilling to even defend their own signed agreements with other countries--now some nations will start asking just how intent is the US on defending what it states and signs?
    2. discrediting the EU---the French German diplomacy failures at Minsk --sanctions will not be strengthened nor lengthened by the EU
    3. discrediting NATO---through the US, French and German actions on the Ukraine problem who now actually believes Article 5 would ever be implemented in a "hybrid war event" where similar Ukrainian events did occur say on the Baltics or Romania or Bulgaria or Slovian?

    Now it appears the Russian annexation of the Crimea and now eastern Ukraine have the undivided support of the US/EU/NATO and that 25 years after the Wall came down and everyone shouting Russia was violating international agreements and laws--all talk nothing more.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Tuesday it was not in the interests of Ukraine or the world to get into a proxy war with Russia over eastern Ukraine, a comment suggesting Washington is hesitant to arm Ukrainian forces.

    "Our belief here in the administration, and I would be surprised if others disagree, is that getting into a proxy war with Russia is not anything that's in the interest of Ukraine or in the interest of the international community," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters. "And certainly, as we weigh options, we weigh that as one of the factors."
    So exactly what does the State Department, the NSC, the WH and Biden have to say about this following Putin statement today in Hungary in light the administration has assessed the simple fact that both Russian troops and heavy weapons are in eastern Ukraine.

    In Hungary, Putin mocks #Ukraine, says losing always painful, especially losing to militia of "miners & truck drivers" pic.twitter.com/0IpLCqfvb2

    So now the "vacationing" Russian Army is "miners and truck drivers"?
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-17-2015 at 09:06 PM.

  6. #2246
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    #PUTIN SAYS #US ARMS ALREADY BEING SUPPLIED TO #UKRAINE

    State Dept: Pro-Russian separatists cannot pick and choose which areas in eastern Ukraine that they want to observe a ceasefire

    You see? THIS IS WHY MINSK II IS FAILURE. Putin can afford 2 send ALL forces to #Debaltseve. No risk 4 counterattack. pic.twitter.com/tkzCYug87i

    Reupping absurd Lifenews story that claims drunk, black, pro-Kiev fighters dancing on tanks are terrorizing civilians http://lifenews.ru/news/150000

    #Putin "Badboy" #Zakharchenko STILL ALIVE after being shot #Debaltseve #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/htsrdyzzy0

    Battalion Donbas cmdr: Russian forces have sent majority of troops into #Debaltseve, leaving other towns undefended https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...83737145015761

    Is it #OSCE or the Onion? #Ceasefire holding fine, except for "constant artillery fire" in direction of #Debaltseve http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/141281

    #Russia SOLDIER Max Voloshin DOB 16/08/93 app Sergent 5/02/15 killed in #Ukraine 29/01/2015 http://lostivan.com/ivan/3984 pic.twitter.com/rLrNnJijAA

    Ukrainian MP Semenchenko: Russia is throwing LPR's last reserves to Debaltseve https://www.facebook.com/dostali.hva...03811816320260 … pic.twitter.com/efqMnxzVn6
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-17-2015 at 09:06 PM.

  7. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Putin wants via the Ukraine to achieve three geo political goals and this administration is massively assisting him in achieving those three goals.

    These three goals have been stated a number of different ways and at different times by Putin since 2002---so it should not have been a surprise to this administration --cannot believe they assumed the "reset" would take precedence over the three goals.

    So out of touch with Russian affairs and just how big is the Department of State, the CIA, DIA and NSA?

    1. disconnect the US from Europe
    2. discredit NATO
    3. discredit the EU

    Must-read John Vinocur @WSJ: "Putin Begins to Crack the Atlantic Alliance" http://www.wsj.com/articles/john-vin...nce-1424133043
    Outlaw, I think Putin is reading US manual. Take a look at point 3-7 and then from 3-29. Rest of the manual is also good guide.

    http://cdn.asktop.net/wp/download/5/TC7_100.pdf

  8. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    Does Putin remember KGB chairman Serov's words?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...tin-visit.html
    Last edited by kaur; 02-17-2015 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #2249
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaur View Post
    Outlaw, I think Putin is reading US manual. Take a look at point 3-7 and then from 3-29. Rest of the manual is also good guide.

    http://cdn.asktop.net/wp/download/5/TC7_100.pdf

    kaur---Putin/Russian military have analyzed every US war/battle/fight from Desert Storm until AFG/Iraq---and copied the US on the UW side down to creating even their own Russian SOCOM and creating a massive SOF ability along the way which is being tested currently in the Ukraine as well as they are testing their New Generation Warfare doctrine.

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    #Russia's military, special forces, troops & armor ID'd on the frontline in #Debaltseve eastern #Ukraine:
    pic.twitter.com/TK7JRsL0RF

    VIDEO: A convoy of #Russia'n T72B tanks in #Makiivka, #Ukraine.
    via @OlgaK2013
    http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donet...v--593428.html pic.twitter.com/8FOHvrpFQ9

    President Putin urging peace while ordering massacre of Ukrainian soldiers is mocking & humiliating not only Ukraine b/ also Germany & West

  11. #2251
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    Colonel Vitaly Kiselev, 'Deputy Commander of LNRs MoD', seen w/ Russian general Lentsov #Debaltseve pic.twitter.com/cgKlsI9OA8

    Lentsov just before he orders Ukrainian POWs to right face and march carrying their own dead pic.twitter.com/veoGcX5MvD

    17.02 #Russian army soldier from Urals defected to #Ukraine and brought his tank along https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...tml&edit-text=

    Russia's Use of Disinformation in the Ukraine Conflict | Foreign Policy Research Institute
    http://www.fpri.org/articles/2015/02...zjxR1x.twitter

    Putin’s Russia is Already ‘a Classic Fascist State,’ Portnikov Says http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2015/02/putins

    Guerrillas in Donbass declared war on terrorists DPR News from Ukraine 16.02 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtZ96a3PKbM&sns=tw

    No accident: Russian troops & irregular forces now occupy 5 regions in 3 neighboring countries @courtneywmh http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...shpoints-12252

    OSCE PA President deplores illegal separatists’ false insist that ceasefire deal doesn't apply to Debaltseve http://www.oscepa.org/news-a-media/p...to-ukraine-cea
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-18-2015 at 08:28 AM.

  12. #2252
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    #Debaltsevo operational data from #Ukraine’s Information Resistance: #Russian commanders throw in all their reserves https://www.facebook.com/dmitry.tymc...43523152443010

    Multiple sources: #Debaltseve is hell on earth. Ukrainians are defending against overwhelming Russian forces in an urban warfare nightmare

    Europe And U.S. Finally Declare That Russian Soldiers Are Fighting In Ukraine http://onforb.es/1A3jgj1 via @forbes

    Local Donetsk coal Miners Drive to work according to Putin pic.twitter.com/wpqxgBlw31

    The Red Army in Debaltseve pic.twitter.com/6iCycGxFWR

    Debaltseve, Ukraine 17 Feb: Deputy Commander of Russian Ground Forces Col-Gen A. Lentsov counting Ukrainian POWs
    This Russian General was suppose to be only a Russian observer assigned to the JCCC---again the western media and intelligence services ignored social media pointing this out months ago.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-18-2015 at 08:28 AM.

  13. #2253
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    Before today's entries there is something interesting with the Ukrainian Russian military battle for Debaltseve---there was a comment posted here a few weeks ago from a BN commander in the town which stated we know our positions, we know what we must do and we know how to get out.

    Presto when evidently totally surrounded they seem to have pulled off an amazing military feat that some NATO militaries currently could not do--a strategic withdrawal while under heavy fire and not losing many along the way and preserving a large amount of their troops and heavy equipment with the aggressor lost of words at his supposedly great victory over the Ukrainian Army.

    From the Russian FM today: Lavrov " Instead to negotiate Ukrainian troops try to get out of Debaltseve pocket"

    From Putin yesterday and at Minsk: the Ukrainian troops in Debaltseve should surrender and lay down their weapons

    Many of the Ukrainian troops were waving and firing victory salvos when they arrived across the lines---not a sign of defeated troops but rather of troops that punished the Russian Army and then pulled out.

    AND the Russian Army was badly punished losing large amounts of heavy equipment and large numbers of troops.

    Almost like Patton's comment that his 3rd Army was not retreating just fighting in another direction during the Battle of the Bulge.


    MP Semenchenko: in Debaltseve, Russian tanks fired point blank at retreating Ukrainian column, casualties reported https://www.facebook.com/dostali.hva...04114439623331

    MORE: #Poroshenko says already 80% of #Ukraine troops in #Debaltseve left.

    Soldiers from Debaltseve just fired a salute "for a successful return" pic.twitter.com/ExYk4dpL9o

    Poroshenko says planned withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from besieged Debaltseve is nearly complete, according to Interfax. 80% of troops out

    Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers pulled out of Debaltseve. Escaped overnight on foot, in vehicles pic.twitter.com/hkdAYzH7ro

    BREAKING: Dozens of #Ukraine army tanks, vehicles seen leaving besieged Debaltseve – AFP

    ARTEMIVSK, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko says Ukrainian troops have been pulled out of Debaltseve.

    We are relieved and very happy to hear from you again. Great news! Best wishes to you and all your battalion.

    This is reference to the 40th BN which was reported earlier to have been surrounded but fought it’s way back to Debaltseve and then came out easily.

    My update for BBC TV on battle for #Debaltseve as of 0600 this morning. Since then #Ukraine has
    started withdrawal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZkx...ature=youtu.be
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-18-2015 at 10:59 AM.

  14. #2254
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    Russian tank put to rest by Ukrainian army near #Troitske #RussiainvadedUkraine https://www.facebook.com/takhmazov/p...20369947995698 @bellingcat pic.twitter.com/f6i8cDDG8L

    #Bryanka. MLRS Uragan http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/18-febr...ka-mlrs-uragan pic.twitter.com/KM57IBAcAj

    #Pictures
    The Russian invasion army claims, it withdraws its heavy weapons from the front.
    #lies #propaganda pic.twitter.com/MEKVQQlWfE

    #BreakingReport
    The Ukrainian leadership ordered troops east of #Mariupol to withdraw and give up freshly regained territory.

  15. #2255
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Before today's entries there is something interesting with the Ukrainian Russian military battle for Debaltseve---there was a comment posted here a few weeks ago from a BN commander in the town which stated we know our positions, we know what we must do and we know how to get out.

    Presto when evidently totally surrounded they seem to have pulled off an amazing military feat that some NATO militaries currently could not do--a strategic withdrawal while under heavy fire and not losing many along the way and preserving a large amount of their troops and heavy equipment with the aggressor lost of words at his supposedly great victory over the Ukrainian Army.

    From the Russian FM today: Lavrov " Instead to negotiate Ukrainian troops try to get out of Debaltseve pocket"

    From Putin yesterday and at Minsk: the Ukrainian troops in Debaltseve should surrender and lay down their weapons

    Many of the Ukrainian troops were waving and firing victory salvos when they arrived across the lines---not a sign of defeated troops but rather of troops that punished the Russian Army and then pulled out.

    AND the Russian Army was badly punished losing large amounts of heavy equipment and large numbers of troops.

    Almost like Patton's comment that his 3rd Army was not retreating just fighting in another direction during the Battle of the Bulge.


    MP Semenchenko: in Debaltseve, Russian tanks fired point blank at retreating Ukrainian column, casualties reported https://www.facebook.com/dostali.hva...04114439623331

    MORE: #Poroshenko says already 80% of #Ukraine troops in #Debaltseve left.

    Soldiers from Debaltseve just fired a salute "for a successful return" pic.twitter.com/ExYk4dpL9o

    Poroshenko says planned withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from besieged Debaltseve is nearly complete, according to Interfax. 80% of troops out

    Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers pulled out of Debaltseve. Escaped overnight on foot, in vehicles pic.twitter.com/hkdAYzH7ro

    BREAKING: Dozens of #Ukraine army tanks, vehicles seen leaving besieged Debaltseve – AFP

    ARTEMIVSK, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko says Ukrainian troops have been pulled out of Debaltseve.

    We are relieved and very happy to hear from you again. Great news! Best wishes to you and all your battalion.

    This is reference to the 40th BN which was reported earlier to have been surrounded but fought it’s way back to Debaltseve and then came out easily.

    My update for BBC TV on battle for #Debaltseve as of 0600 this morning. Since then #Ukraine has
    started withdrawal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZkx...ature=youtu.be
    When the dust settles on this battle one will see the Russians fell hook line and sinker into believing the military strength to be far higher than it really was on the Ukrainian side, that the Ukrainians fought an extremely effective defensive campaign focused on causing death and destruction to the Russian troops and their mercenaries and then pulled out to avoid any major loses in order to fight again.

    Not badly done for a rag tag army the western media keeps repeating cannot fight against the superior Russian forces.

    More details from the various small unit commanders and BN commanders are coming out---many of the infantry units fought up to last night when their own armored vehicles were finally damaged and even though cut off on the comms side as they were fighting in defensive pockets inside the city---made decisions to walk out and brought their units with them as well as their wounded.

    So the myth that they were "surrounded" kind of fades if complete units could walk out--that is the inherent weakness with this "new Russian Army"--it is heavy tank and APC focused and has limited infantry abilities to hold and close off complete land segments.

    Absolutely silence is being heard from the Russian military and their mercenaries especially in the face of heavy loses---even though they hold the city --at what cost?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-18-2015 at 11:19 AM.

  16. #2256
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    Pres @poroshenko said Ukr forces withdrew w/ mil equipment incl tanks, BMPs, self-propelled artillery, automotive vehicles - video address

    Final Ukrainian units are walking their way out under cover of Ukrainian heavy artillery support in board daylight and surrounded by Russian troops and mercenaries---and this is a “Russian victory”?

    If Ukrainian troops were able to bring their dead brothers-in-arms with, it means it wasn't a chaotic retreat.

    80% of Ukrainian military units have withdrawn from #Debaltseve, have their arms with them, 2 more columns expected - president Poroshenko

    One ambulance after another arriving in #Artemivsk, there are many casualties and wounded
    via @ronzheimer
    pic.twitter.com/fgWdLZGvte

    At least 40 #Ukraine soldiers killed during withdrawl - Hromadske TV
    This is not a bad number considering the sheer size of the Russian forces arrayed against them in this pocket.

    This morning several Ukraine's Armed Forces and National Guard units withdrew from Debaltseve in an orderly and pre-planned manner.

    Poroshenko said "that the forces of ATO took new frontiers in the Donbass and shamed Russia"

    #Semenchenko: convoy breaking out of #Debaltseve w/out cover was attacked by tanks. Ukr artillery now supports, evac of WIA, KIA is underway

    Ukrainian forces, departure from #Debaltseve. Tired but happy. Photos of HromandskeTV journalist Nastya Stanko. pic.twitter.com/gLvDS8QYea

    When it all said and done actual figures will not have been more than 1 to 2K Ukrainians total involved in the fighting and yet they tied down over 6K Russian mercenaries and Russian troops.

    Loses from one Ukrainian BN which had been surrounded indicate that even with loses the Russian military and merceanries numbers were 3 to 4 times more troops than the Ukranians had in Debaltseve.

    Officer of Ukraian Krivbas battalion (40th battalion): "We got out, but not w.o with losses. About 10pc presumed dead, 10pc POWs"----equals roughly 60-80 from a unit that was cut off and totally surrounded and fought and walked their way out.

    Even journalists working the Debaltseve Salient were outfoxed by the actual Ukrainian Army strength there as well.

    Maxim Tucker @MaxRTucker
    Reports indicate a thousand #Ukraine soldiers have managed to walk out of #Debaltseve. Poroshenko's claims that 80% withdrawn ring hollow

    Other journalists are not getting it either---if you cannot win a total victory then drive the loses of the aggressor into the sky---a very old battlefield tactic that yes even the US saw in Vietnam.

    Christopher Miller ✔ @ChristopherJM
    .@poroshenko says #Ukraine forces "gave a blow in the teeth" to rebels in #Debaltseve. https://twitter.com/poroshenko/statu...09018473631744 … But it's them retreating

    As a counter comment:
    But then again, Churchill praised Dunkirk evacuation as a victory even if British troops left ALL heavy arms in France.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-18-2015 at 12:57 PM.

  17. #2257
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    The US WH and NSC now have an extremely interesting problem on their hands especially since they used the word "incursion" and have not changed that term even though now admitting Russian troops and heavy equipment are officially in eastern Ukraine as of this week---so at least an improvement on that point.

    Will Putin continue to act as an aggressor and move on four other Ukrainian major cities such as Odessa, Mariupol, Kharkov in the Donetsk Oblast that are fully under Ukrainian control?

    During the so called Russian supported separatist uprisings back in May these cities did not shift to the separatists as they were firmly Ukrainian and held to the central government much to the surprise of the then Girkin and Putin himself.

    Putin might now be emboldened enough to risk taking them to provide full control over the Donbas and to build his land corridor from Odessa to the Crimea something Russia has been openly talking about.

    If that happens when what will this WH and NSC do--ignore it as they have been doing?

    As I wrote 3 weeks ago: Start digging trenches in #Kharkiv.
    Reports say, this happens since today in #Artemivsk. pic.twitter.com/Zd87W8PsAW

    #BREAKINGNEWS
    #Putin finished after #Debaltseve not in your *** life.
    Russian forces resume attacks on the N-W Donetsk front. pic.twitter.com/YfyGwRedBe

    #Update
    Sound of Russian tank fire can be heard until #Popasna. Russian invasion forces seem to use first freeed tanks from Deb vs.Troitske
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-18-2015 at 12:53 PM.

  18. #2258
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    More from the Russian world of "an altered state of reality".

    Lavrov is gone mad! TASS "Debaltsevo is a pretext for the US to talk about new sanctions, exert pressure on Russia — FM Lavrov"

    Lavrov needs reality check. #Georgia wants to join NATO - Moscow Warns v ‘Dragging Georgia into NATO’ http://shar.es/1WbRpH

    Acc 2 Lavrov #Ukraine troops started hostilities with attempt to break out of #Debaltseve. Living in parallel universe. Very worrying!

    Putin “claimed” in Hungary yesterday that the mercenaries and Russian troops were “miners and truck drivers defending their families”

    Check this “local miner” in Debaltseve-not even Ukrainian.pic.twitter.com/Q9rx9hAJ15

    Flag being raised by Russian troops in Debaltseve is in fact the flag of “New Russia” not the DNR notice the soldiers are not Ukrainians.

    Flag raised over #Debaltseve by Russian-backed forces is that of "Novorossiya," not Donetsk People's Republic... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeHz7GMVE9c
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-18-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  19. #2259
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    Seems as if the Russian mercenaries cannot figure out as well as to where "all the Ukrainian soldiers disappeared to" so they simply declared them all KIA---makes for a great propaganda story inside Russia but still does not conceal the fact that it was not much of a "victory" when everyone simply let town and headed by to Ukrainian lines.

    To openly admit they all got away would not be a "major victory".

    Various DNR separatist commanders claim that 2,000 or 3,000 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in #Debaltseve http://www.interfax.ru/world/424948
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-18-2015 at 12:55 PM.

  20. #2260
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Pres @poroshenko said Ukr forces withdrew w/ mil equipment incl tanks, BMPs, self-propelled artillery, automotive vehicles - video address

    Final Ukrainian units are walking their way out under cover of Ukrainian heavy artillery support in board daylight and surrounded by Russian troops and mercenaries---and this is a “Russian victory”?

    If Ukrainian troops were able to bring their dead brothers-in-arms with, it means it wasn't a chaotic retreat.

    80% of Ukrainian military units have withdrawn from #Debaltseve, have their arms with them, 2 more columns expected - president Poroshenko

    One ambulance after another arriving in #Artemivsk, there are many casualties and wounded
    via @ronzheimer
    pic.twitter.com/fgWdLZGvte

    At least 40 #Ukraine soldiers killed during withdrawl - Hromadske TV
    This is not a bad number considering the sheer size of the Russian forces arrayed against them in this pocket.

    This morning several Ukraine's Armed Forces and National Guard units withdrew from Debaltseve in an orderly and pre-planned manner.

    Poroshenko said "that the forces of ATO took new frontiers in the Donbass and shamed Russia"

    #Semenchenko: convoy breaking out of #Debaltseve w/out cover was attacked by tanks. Ukr artillery now supports, evac of WIA, KIA is underway

    Ukrainian forces, departure from #Debaltseve. Tired but happy. Photos of HromandskeTV journalist Nastya Stanko. pic.twitter.com/gLvDS8QYea

    When it all said and done actual figures will not have been more than 1 to 2K Ukrainians total involved in the fighting and yet they tied down over 6K Russian mercenaries and Russian troops.

    Loses from one Ukrainian BN which had been surrounded indicate that even with loses the Russian military and merceanries numbers were 3 to 4 times more troops than the Ukranians had in Debaltseve.

    Officer of Ukraian Krivbas battalion (40th battalion): "We got out, but not w.o with losses. About 10pc presumed dead, 10pc POWs"----equals roughly 60-80 from a unit that was cut off and totally surrounded and fought and walked their way out.

    Even journalists working the Debaltseve Salient were outfoxed by the actual Ukrainian Army strength there as well.

    Maxim Tucker @MaxRTucker
    Reports indicate a thousand #Ukraine soldiers have managed to walk out of #Debaltseve. Poroshenko's claims that 80% withdrawn ring hollow

    Other journalists are not getting it either---if you cannot win a total victory then drive the loses of the aggressor into the sky---a very old battlefield tactic that yes even the US saw in Vietnam.

    Christopher Miller ✔ @ChristopherJM
    .@poroshenko says #Ukraine forces "gave a blow in the teeth" to rebels in #Debaltseve. https://twitter.com/poroshenko/statu...09018473631744 … But it's them retreating

    As a counter comment:
    But then again, Churchill praised Dunkirk evacuation as a victory even if British troops left ALL heavy arms in France.
    Now it really seems that the Russian FM cannot quite understand just where all those Ukrainian soldiers went to as he is still talking and acting as if they are in fact still in Debaltseve.

    Seems that the Russians lost a great negotiation tactic and yet they did not get the news.

    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #Lavrov: Instead of negotiations, there are attempts to break the blockade from inside and outside, which is of great concern to us

    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #Lavrov: We call on everyone, incl. the forces in #Debaltsevo, to cease firing. The fate of the people held there must be decided by talks

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